Ecosystem Updates, ETCSwap, Multichain Bridge

0:20community cool this is number 25 and today is the 5th of july 2022. 0:28this week is a follow-up from last week's episode where we uh talked with bob samwell and we had a bunch of content that we didn't have a chance to get to so this week we will be providing uh an ecosystem update in particular we'll be hearing from a friend of the show uh 0:46ronin who will be updating us on some of the products he's been working on as well as some uh discussion we'll have about uh other areas in the ecoc etc ecosystem ronin why don't you take the floor and let us know about what you've been working 1:04on all right hey how's it going guys all right um just post that youtube live link all right so um so pretty much what we've put up uh as i had signaled in the past was we put up a swap product um called 1:23etc swap you should just go to etcswop.org and you can check it out there uh and then um it just it's a basic uh uniswap v2 clone um that's a tried-and-true protocol uh open source um [Music] so 1:42there's pl there's been plenty of liquidity in it on the east foundation network uh so it seems to be a pretty stable uh protocol at this point uh we did uh uniswap v2 because the license allows that um the v3 does not allow you to fork 1:59that over at this point um when it when we can do that i believe we will do that um [Music] anyways and then uh through that i had signaled uh the intent to uh bring stable coins over to etc uh 2:17in some sort of uh decentralized way um right now you can obviously exchange uh etc to any stable coin on a centralized exchange so that's never really been an issue um but doing so in a non-custodial decentralized way and um [Music] in 2:37a way that's uh through a reputable uh outfit um that was kind of the challenge so we did some research on that trying to figure out kind of what the best solution for that would be um we obviously looked back at you know chain bridge and some of the older things that had actually already 2:55been propped up on uh etc but uh didn't really get much traction and uh and then we identified multi-chain.org as a really good um solution for that based on how many networks they already have integrated based 3:13on also that they're backed by binance i think that that adds some uh credit to their reputation um they had a previous hack uh back in i wanna say it was early 2022 maybe january and uh they refunded all customers 3:32um and then redid audits and did a big security thing uh this was in the wave of bridge hacks so that's kind of been a thing uh so this was uh that was kind of an area that we identified as a pretty big risk um definitely in terms of putting up our own 3:51uh bridge but also uh in bridges that we would like to look at and integrate with um and so we kind of identified multi-chain as probably the most reputable one out there right now um that is really hard technology so uh so if 4:10any of you aren't familiar uh doing non-custodial swaps frost chain has been something that people have talked about for a very long time very hard to pull off um so anyways so take a look at their product um what's great about it is that it allows you we we wanted a bridge for the etc 4:30network um for the merge event uh so that people can start funneling liquidity over um to hedge against anything that might happen on the eth network during that um and so uh so 4:47that was our main goal um what's great is that they have a bunch of other networks and so um we saw there was a need for cheaper fees obviously to come over um to etc uh because the youth foundation network um is pretty expensive to go back and forth 5:06uh so we identified bmb chain as probably uh the most sounds uh secondary second chain to integrate with um so we bridged uh bmb chain and each chain two etc you can go back and forth uh i believe it's no 5:24fees to bridge over to etc um so that's great so bringing liquidity to this network shouldn't cost you very much money um maybe gas fees you know uh minor gas fees nominal fees like that uh going back to the other chains going back to the heath foundation uh wood is pretty expensive 5:44that's why we wanted to make sure we had the bnb fan for that um and so so anyway so i encourage anyone to uh try that out is to try to bring liquidity over um if you deposit liquidity into etc swap uh you 6:01will get it's uh 25 bips uh to all liquidity pools so you don't have to hold a special token or anything like that i know that uh some people do that i think that's what the uni uh people do um is you hold the token and then get liquidity provider rewards or something like that uh we don't have there's nothing 6:20none of that going on it's just add liquidity into those pools um you'll help the network out uh because people can do on-chain swaps uh all of that and you'll earn uh those liquidity pool fees um the the four stable coins that are supported 6:40right now uh for the bridge are tether uh coin bases usdc unfamiliar with that uh that's an ethereum uh foundation stablecoin uh 6:58and then uh busd so binance usd so those are the four and they're the four biggest uh stable coins by market cap so it's pretty material bringing those over um other assets that are active on the bridge are wrapped bitcoin so 7:15now there's on-chain uh etc to wrap bitcoin markets um uh ethereum foundation eth eth uh that is bridged over and uh and bnb from the bm uh the bmb trans so finance is going so all of those assets are bridged over to 7:35etc um feel free to test it out test out bridging test out uh adding liquidity test out swaps uh we're talking about fractions of pennies to test uh test out stuff on etc so just be cautious with that but it all generally functions uh just like uniswap v2 so it should 7:54be pretty self-explanatory if you've ever used a swapping product um and that's really the big update on that uh i think it took us you know we signaled that we were gonna do this uh when we heard that the merge was successful uh back in march 2022 um and that kind of signaled that okay it looks 8:14like uh ethereum will be uh the largest proof of work smart contract uh network um so it has uh a material position in the blockchain space um and it looks like it has a bright future it just looks like now uh we're entering a point where it's kind of organic growth um 8:34sure vcs and all of that you know you saw that on ethereum foundation but um that's kind of how this network goes and so that's kind of what we're watching for we're watching for the merge and uh and you know we expect that liquidity will slowly funnel into the swap products um the swap 8:52pools and uh and people will make use of it um so anyways that's really the update on that sounds like a really uh like low hanging fruit initiative that we talked about although obviously there's a lot of work involved in it it's it's stuff 9:12that's really going to provide a lot of value and uh i guess uh the ethereum classic ecosystem uh has a lot to appreciate i think about this i did have a few uh questions that were brought up in your uh uh discussion there um so first you mentioned 9:30that uh uniswap the v3 license is not compatible with forking did you elaborate a bit on that like i thought it was open source what's preventing you from doing that uh yeah so when they made the v3 um we looked at it because v3 is actually um really favorable for stable coin markets which 9:48was kind of one of my primary goals with uh putting this product online was bringing sta uh stable coins into the etc ecosystem on chain i think that that's a high value and uh not a huge lift um but uh 10:06due to sushi swap uh what they ended up doing was with their license i believe they put a couple years claws so you can't uh fire fire up the v3 it's uh not open source until like a couple years after running so i can't remember the specific specific year um 10:23but that's what's restricting the uh cloning the the v3 protocol that's an interesting approach to uh open source and i haven't seen that elsewhere but uh i guess it makes sense in terms of maintaining a bit of a monopoly but uh yeah yeah i think it makes sense for building 10:43up their own pools and uh and also i think uh it makes a lot of sense in terms of security uh i think you know uh they'll get all the bugs worked out on v3 while they have their bug bounty and all of that and people aren't cloning it and so i actually think it's kind of a good service that they're doing 11:01by doing that and then you know a couple years into it uh whenever that opens up for open source um you know it'll have gone through kind of that security uh live test with serious liquidity there uh and a good uh bug bounty program so i i actually kind of appreciate 11:20that they did that and i see why they did it from a competition perspective but also a security to the to the greater ecosystem i do wonder what would happen though if some uh that we shall we say it kind of encourages um pirated 11:38versions of the software to be launched and released anonymously so be interesting to see in the future where if they are making massive gains and someone wants to replicate that what are they actually going to do legally if someone else deploys it in a decentralized environment yeah i think i don't know i i think uh i think 11:58that dow hacker story was kind of a prime example of uh you know these chains that may be anonymous for a while but i mean if you're the problem is let's say you do put up a v3 and then it's extremely successful well now you have a ton of money uh that they can try to get from you and damages right so you put 12:16a big target on you and then it makes sense to do the blockchain analysis and track down who you are um and you know it's on the blockchain forever so uh as we saw with the bitfinex hackers right it's like they can get away for a little while but as the as the value goes up the target gets bigger on your back and then all of a sudden 12:35it's worthwhile to trace you down and catch you so it doesn't really make sense to me to try to violate that license uh from someone that's um i i just think if you if you just honor it and do it correctly um what's a couple years you know if it's a good protocol what's good we're getting there there's 12:54a lot of privacy investment like you know like rail project now you can pretty much doesn't matter if you have you can send ethereum to ethereum address privately and that funds just disappear so i think you're forgetting a lot of privacy aspects and factors are coming into this ecosystem that 13:13would allow to you know disguise those funds you can do all the chain analysis in the world but they're building yeah we'll see i you make one mistake that's the one thing about the blockchain you make one mistake and uh and that's what most people do so so 13:32anyway so just in terms of trying to violate that license i just don't think it makes uh very much sense yeah absolutely definitely not at this stage and i i wouldn't suggest uh it's a wise thing to do at all uh thought experiment but uh yeah i think the v2 especially now for etc uh 13:51the fees are not too bad so v3 is not really paying any benefit anyway yeah i think the the big benefit of the v3 versus the v2 is uh is how you can uh range your liquidity and so uh something like a stablecoin where you expect all the liquidity to be around a dollar uh you 14:10know the v2 uh price curve doesn't really make a ton of sense in terms of liquidity usage so your depth uh really gets depleted pretty quickly in a scenario like that whereas uh uh other other coins where you expect volatility it's a little bit different but for stable coins v3 is a substantial upgrade 14:37so uh my next comment was about um your approach to naming conventions and how you are describing the different assets and how they i noticed that for example uh if you wanted to swap uh etc for die it's just your die in the ui and 14:55whilst i reckon that's the most simple way of doing it uh as time goes on do you think uh do you have any ideas about how you would uh deal with multiple versions of dye on different chains and different uh bridges and whether or not you need to somehow uh like 15:15unmask the counterparty risk involved in the different types of assets that are listed instead of just saying it's pure die which it isn't really uh it's divira bridge so did you have any thoughts on that yeah and so so i had originally set this up with uh any die and it was extremely confusing for anyone uh outside and this is just a token 15:34listing so it's actually extremely easy to adjust um with a just with one simple uh get github uh pull request uh but if you highlight the die it actually does say multi-chain peg die um so that's kind of uh what i decided to 15:51do uh is that it's still signifi uh um still shows that it's multi-chain uh if you highlight over it um but yeah the ticker is just that and and we were really looking at that um when we were looking at um doing setting up the 16:09analytics for this and how uh how we would plug in these die trades uh to any sort of you know coin market cap and all of that um and then i think i i am aware that uh in the future i imagine there will be more bridges right so i don't expect multi-chain 16:28to be the only one uh and also perhaps uh some of these stable coins will natively issue on etc which that's the main goal in the long run is if our hash rate goes up it makes a lot of sense for someone like tether to natively issue some tether onto this network um and in that 16:45case we just will simply do a um an adjustment of uh of the token list and you know we can do uh we can add an mc to it a prefix uh and they're they used to be called any swap and so they used to do all of their tokens where any and then whatever the ticker 17:03was it's it was just extremely confusing for the general public and so that's the only reason uh why we just dropped it to just what the normal uh tickers are and then added just uh the alt description that highlights that it's a peg there's 17:22only one version of those assets then it makes the most sense to do whatever's simple and people can easily understand yeah yeah and so uh so we'll definitely adjust um adjust whatever's needed uh as as things progress but this was just to get us foundationally now we have stable coins on 17:42chain you know there is a way to a non-custodial way to bridge out of them to their native networks um oh and by the way i believe uh i'm not sure if uh the integration's 100 done and uh if you can take like tether for instance and take it over to the bmb chain 18:00from etc uh i know that they were working on that um so uh so i don't know if that's completed yet but that will be the goal is that uh to go back off of etc it won't cost you uh 50 or whatever it was to go through the eath foundation bridge you can go the bmb 18:20bridge and then obviously a deposit into finance and convert it to whatever you need to on a centralized if you needed to do that i see it's interesting and i guess at that stage it would be like a multi-hop thing so you're going from tether like their their volt or whatever to ethereum 18:39to etc and then from etc to bnb and multiple rapping yeah yeah it would be a wrap to a wrap and then uh and then probably the what makes the most sense to the east fees is to convert it on a centralized exchange and then you could cash it out like let's say if you're doing coinbase or something 18:58and then cash it out on a on coinbase for that one to one uh no fee to fiat right so just like the path to fiat going from etc to fiat probably makes most sense instead of going through the eath foundation it makes sense to go through the bmb chain because 19:14of the nominal fees associated and how the bridge is operating um at this like basically now ethereum classic is kind of running as a side chain if you like or as a shard of ethereum whereby assets 19:34on ethereum can be voided over and used more efficiently at lower gas fees um and also technically a side chain to bitcoin now because via ethereum wrapped bitcoin is on there so that's pretty cool uh 19:56the bridge that you're using uh multi-chain could you talk a bit more about how the uh function of the uh the bridge actually operates in terms of counterparty risk and you mentioned that it's trustless how does it deal with things like chain splits 20:14in that case how does it resolve a chain split for example if ethereum forked into what would the et ethereum asset on etc look like at that point you know i i love to um to talk deeply on multi-chain and everything about it but uh i'm not an expert 20:34in it right so i don't i don't necessarily feel comfortable uh kind of pitching their product in that way um so so i don't i don't know that i can answer that in a way that uh would be intelligent and would 20:49be honest to the community um so maybe maybe we host a call and have them talk about their product in detail and everything about it yeah that'd be cool good idea as 21:10you mentioned trustless bridges are really difficult and uh i think we should be pretty um careful with the use of the word trust less and maybe revert to trust minimized as donald likes to do um in the interim versus 21:30custodial that's more what i i usually think about it um in terms of uh legal risk to them in in most of these protocols there's some level of custodian i mean if they if they got hacked before there must be some 21:47way to uh it's usually some kind of multi-sig basically and if they have really good security properties around the multi-sig it could be considered fairly like there's no single custodian but uh it's still a group of people that uh if if they collude could potentially steal stuff 22:07and that's usually the case but uh uh yeah i think it'll be worth looking in detail about how their their stuff operates yeah and my understanding is uh is harmony just went through that a multi-sig attack so it's worth reading up on it um similar technology um and 22:26uh yeah i this is i mean this is the hardest uh tech problem to solve i believe right now in terms of interoperability is the non-custodial elements obviously 22:48uh probably hasn't been tons of like advertising yet i mean this is the first time we're talking about it on a call so uh hopefully things pick up going forward but i was just interested in uh how are things looking in terms of liquidity providers and how 23:05how does maybe you can explain the difference between the liquidity on the multi-chain system and the liquidity within etc swap because i guess there's two different like elements of liquidity there been 23:22very meaningful adoption of anything right now um it's not listed anywhere there isn't an analytic analytics uh um dashboard or anything like that uh we don't have the graph so it's not extremely easy uh you have to do a local a 23:39local instance of that um also given the markets i mean i think i think when we put this out uh we probably had one one of the worst weeks of a bitcoin price so um as you can see there's a lot of fear and anxiety so i wouldn't expect this to i think i think this is kind of going to go how when 23:59uniswap uh kind of launched in 2019 how it just kind of took a while to gain traction so um i don't necessarily think that this product will be you know we're not planning i'm not planning on doing a big marketing thing for this or anything it's really uh the functionality is there um 24:18i think it will grow grassroots um you know and if it doesn't if it doesn't have any value then it will die off uh but generally speaking i see value there um so uh so i just think that that's the way it's gonna go uh a lot of people have asked me to deposit a lot of liquidity in 24:38there and all that and i just i just don't think that that's kind of uh the right route for this ecosystem i think uh i think grassroots uh liquidity uh makes a lot more sense i think there's a lot of trust issues with ethereum classic community so you know nobody's really gonna if you're sitting 24:56there waiting for everybody to all of a sudden oh yeah i want my liquidity in this new thing i mean you're going to be waiting a long time i mean just knowing the history of ethereum classic and just you know how things go and it's all the money grab and everything else people are not just gonna sit there because 25:15i'm looking at it right now just to see what's the easiest way to add liquidity if i buy atc if i buy uh let's say being uh the binance peg or the usd peg i mean the price would be just for me to get like three or four etc work i'd be selling 10 atc you know so 25:35nobody's really going to be utilizing this platform until i think you add in just a little bit yeah just to give everybody that leap of faith that opinion uh you know uh that code is open source so you're more than welcome to review the code um all 25:54of that uh i just you know i'm the one that put this up right so i i'm kind of approaching it how i want to approach it uh if you want a lot of liquidity in there you guys gotta put liquidity in there if you want to use it you know if you see value if you don't you know it's really no sweat off me right so the operational cost isn't isn't 26:14drastically big to operate this um lot of liquidity i think just just something basic just just to kick it off that's all i just know i just want to add to this just a second i just want to add this according 26:33to chain analysis in terms of trading or effectively swapping coins from one coin to another or the the entire volume for one year uh it's like 60 60 26:52percent is done on swaps so there there's a very very big market there and we over already seen big players uh evolving this and having this this is just the start here it's 27:09absolutely great what happened with uniswap and how how it just jumped up and any swap market right uh it's a massive percentage of volume and and you know people with a lot of liquidity 27:27might see this as hey we're a liquidity provider company we will go in and we'll provide liquidity here right um they can look at the code but they can do all of that you know it's there to look at um i i sometimes wish with this community they would step up and do a lot of stuff and 27:46and do maybe less complaining because what i kind of see is people do a lot of lifts around here and then people expect more and more but you know it this is grassroots guys this is an open source community you guys are welcome to add equity or you're not it doesn't really matter um in the long run the value is there and someone's going to 28:05want to make money with those uh 25 bips all the financial incentive is there and so if we have to wait for that to happen that's fine that's how it kind of goes but you know uh to just put it on me and say hey you know ronan not only do you have to put up this protocol and do all this stuff but now you have to go and take all of your capital put it 28:24up in there you know let us swap and do all you know it's like you guys but i think what you're forgetting that this is not ethereum this is ethereum classic i mean look at saturn what happened to saturn down what happened to all of these other ship protocols that were born in ethereum classic you know doing 28:43thinking having the same mentality and they're just all dust they're gone you know this is this this is like a whole different step ethereum classic yeah you have the platform if you have the code it looks like 29:01it but that doesn't mean that what worked for unit swap is going to work for you on the ethereum classic because our ecosystem is not the same you know what i mean we don't have the same uh like etc has more freedom people rather than you know brainwashed lefties i'm sorry i don't need to offend anyone but that's the 29:20truth and people think different in the ethereum classic ecosystem so you can sit there and [ __ ] all over people your potential investors and tell them that you don't give a [ __ ] about them but expect the same exact result listen there is no investment here i'm not 29:39soliciting money i think that's a big confusion with uh some of you guys is uh you know you you get to decide if you want to contribute to the like it's my investment right i'm putting my money in locking in like whether it's a bridge or it's your platform whatever it is right you know i did the same [ __ ] with saturn manny did and then he got burned 29:57right so who are you for us to trust you right to say hey you know just go ahead and do your own thing provide your own you know i'm saying like i get it and i respect what you're saying it is your project and everything else but you know if you i'm just giving you my input if you really want this thing to take off nobody's asking you to pour millions and you 30:17know be a liquidity provider but just something just reasonable to where people can just start adding to it you know what i mean where they don't have to jump hoops with the bridges and everything else they can just go ahead and get it from your liquidity and add right into it you know what i mean that's all i'm saying yeah and i think you'll get there i think i think maybe you're asking for you 30:36know it's uh it's a pretty new thing so it'll get there um you know listen i'm not soliciting money i'm not doing any of that stuff uh the protocol's there it's open source it's non-custodial i can't turn it off it's it's deployed you know that this here you're 30:54acting you know yeah maybe uh something that i put up but i mean uh you know there's an ipfs gateway this thing will be here as long as the etc network's here so in these markets as well i can't you know i can't i'm not a gatekeeper or anything like that so you guys you guys get to run with this you know it's it's a 31:13great thing to have that bridge those are those are great things for the network but you know this is a decentralized network it doesn't depend just on me so uh so just understand that and uh and just understand that it's my choice to say listen i'm not gonna you know i put resources in this already right 31:32and so so it's so it's on you guys to to use the product and use the chin and use the network and if you don't feel comfortable doing this just wait you'll see it'll just organically grow i'm pretty confident that i've been around the space for a while so have you so you've seen these things progress um and we're not in a great market it'll be nice 31:52slow and steady and uh and i think it's a great ad for the network so it's a very very big use case for for a network like this the platform looks great i think you did an amazing job with the bridges and everything else don't get me wrong and i'm not giving you a hard time just to give you a hard time uh 32:10i think you know how i am by now but uh i i was just like throwing some constructive criticism out there but other than that i mean i trust your work that doesn't mean anyone else trusts your work you know and uh i would say don't trust verify and the code is open source on chain on block scout go and take that and look at it compared 32:30to other code i mean this stuff is all open source you can look at it all we did it all properly we even fixed block scout because you couldn't verify code before we started working we worked with uh etc co-op and fixed a bug you can even verify your code before we started working on it so that's all progress that's that's good exactly exactly 32:49and so and and to their credit i mean uh i believe it i can't remember i think as diego that helped us and uh and just great work on him he was very responsive and now anyone can uh verify their contracts on on chance so um so anyway i would just read into what like like 33:08go read into uniswap v2 because that's what this is is it you know it's not like a drastic recode or anything like that um just go read into that if you're unfamiliar with it that should get you comfortable on what's been launched you know this stuff's been around has had billions of dollars going through it um these are tried and true protocols 33:26uh multi-chain definitely do your homework on that um it looks to like from our team it looked like this was the best solution for a bridge but as the disclaimer is is that bridge technology is very hard it's been targeted on hacks and all of that so you guys really need to do your own resource search 33:45on that we just integrated all of this because it seemed like the best solution uh and we looked at other bridges as well and so um hopefully in the future we won't have to have necessarily this type of bridge um where we're getting stable coins in this way hopefully we have native state of coins 34:03uh issued directly we just don't have that right now we're only at 30 tara hash we're getting there so it's just this is a stepping stone for i think some great things in the future for this network um i just i hope that what we see out of the community is we start seeing a lot more usage on the network um i think we'll see a lot of development we're going to see a lot more 34:23minors we'll just you know all of this stuff we're going in the right direction so that's just really all i all i have to say on that and kind of what i think the next two years is about yeah i appreciate all your work ron you did a really good job with with the theory i appreciate i appreciate your comments and i understand them i just you 34:42know i just wanted to clear the era of an expectation of you know i'm just kind of letting it kind of grow how like a little organically i think that that's better in this network rather than me for speeding it down people are marketing it and doing all that i think i think it'll just kind of organically pick 35:00up and i think we'll be all right do you plan to to evolve this in in new products because having those peers and other 35:22stuff other are other type of products are you thinking about that yes yeah that's actually exactly why we targeted this is that like these type of pairs are foundational right um so you can build a lot of d5 protocols on top of these pairs um as 35:41the liquidity builds up so it's it you know it kind of takes uh it'll take time for the liquidity pools to build up but then you know all of a sudden you can have uh you know borrowing and lending markets that are sourcing from these pools uh you can do all sorts of things um dap developers 35:58can just directly tie in um people can be doing uh uh their icos and all of a sudden now they're counter you know they're doing a stable coin in their ico right instead of you know just etc um so there's just there's just a ton of functionality that comes by having these base 36:16foundational pairs and that was really my goal and uh and i come from the exchange space uh i've watched volume through uh exchange products and i just know that these pairs right here these are the big players this is where the most volume comes this is where the deepest liquidity will reside 36:34um and it allows for things like a big ico boom and all of that on top of the network um it allows uh you know um those lending protocols and all of that to start forming but you know it's we're not working on the youth foundation budget right so this is you know just kind 36:54of has to it takes more time to just kind of evolve and uh and i think that we'll start seeing big players will start noticing as things keep getting turned online how in like uh what's your involvement with the mandela exchange project because 37:13i remember you were you were the one who kind of got me involved in that right i just wanted because i didn't know if you were actually involved in the project or you know you're just investing no no i was hands off uh just a capital uh contribution to that because 37:32it would be nice to see like uh you know at least one exchange just started listing these um uh etc rc 20 pairs you know um like they they are with the ethereum chain for the audience could you explain what mandela is i'm sorry binance 37:53cloud um that's a finance cloud uh um what partnership exchange and so uh so anyways it was just something that uh that i told him about probably back in 2021 or 2022 so pretty unrelated to this uh 38:12it's just it's a different i was just wondering about you know having uh like etc erc uh pairs listed on exchanges and you know that's the only reason why i asked if you had any connections with that exchange or with that project you know it would be cool if you could just i don't have much much say now that it would kind of be like um like digital currency 38:32group how they invest in other things and uh you know and like their ability to have etc listed on all sorts of stuff um barry and such so uh so i don't really have much say on that he actually i'm sorry that wouldn't be comparable he probably has a lot more weight than anything 38:49that i have dive in into the details a little bit about the uh the fees involved in using etc swap and like what's to prevent someone from just forking the project and removing the fees 39:14for any swap product uh but the fees are just uh just general um we didn't adjust uh much of it at all and so uh when you look at uh the v2 there's a 25 bips uh for the liquidity providers and then um i believe 39:32there's five bips and that's uh the stuff that's going through uh the long-term development fund that i had spoke about previous is uh is those fees end up going uh to future development of future protocols and such sure 39:52if they wanted to uh probably fork and remove all fees if they wanted to i don't think we've ever seen that in a swap product but um go for it a 40:11great ad would be to to see if you can add the um the the grayscale product that they have so you would then have etc as a bridge between greyscale projects 40:28have you thought of that no i haven't but but that would be fascinating i don't know uh is anyone else doing that where they do bridges to uh to etfs or or any of those new york stock exchange listed products i don't i don't uh i don't really know how a bridge with that would work 40:48considering the financial regulations and all that but uh that'd be fascinating if someone was bridging like tesla over to uh crypto market i think uh fdx is doing that in some way yeah you have to do it a futures contract i guess well that's that'll be one 41:07way of doing it by futures contract yeah hope happens is we start seeing uh developers come in uh that set up something like a dydx and and any of those on-chain uh protocols and we start seeing that that stuff 41:25start to sprout up um but you know over here is uh you know it was really just uh our lift was signaled to get stable coins and a swap product uh and try to get some meaningful markets 41:38on chain the i saw a discussion regarding wrapped etc and uh like a hebrew swap as well what they're doing and 41:56what what happened there and what's what's the status of wrapped etc my understanding is uh a couple people weren't extremely familiar with wrapped etc and so generally it's just uh there is a contract uh from the wrapped 42:16ether project uh the w e t h dot io project um and anyways so we ended up uh when you deploy uh this swap product you do have to specify uh a wrapped etc um 42:35or if you were doing it on the ethj or if you did it on the bmb chain it'd be a wrapped bmb um and so it's just a non-custodial uh contract that's been around for a while um actually the very first one was launched i think in on etc was launched in 2019 and so uh 42:55when we were setting up we just decided that we were going to uh follow the w e t h dot io project and we would uh any protocol that we work on would do would uh support a common wetc and we just hadn't seen that in 43:15any of the ecosystem at the time and so uh some people thought that um we should have uh used the heebie swap uh wetc uh i'm not sure if it was verified at the time to be honest with you uh i don't think that we even looked at their wetc to see if it 43:33was the same contract or anything like that uh it appears it is the same contract and they have uh like uh 3 000 uh etc in there um at the end of the day it's not really a big deal um essentially all you do is you just unwrap to etc and then it's interoperable 43:51between any protocol um but when we were setting it up we were just setting it up after the weth uh and we had signaled to them that that's what we were gonna do and they said you know we're we're gonna do our wetc so so it's you know it's no sweat it's is 44:09there any way to bridge that budget um i don't think that it necessarily makes any sense to bridge it because you could just stop like first fee you can just uh unwrap you know if you 44:26just go back to etc yeah it really it really is uh not a big deal it would be a big deal if we were seeing like 50 uh fees you know if we were that far into it but we just anyway in the future maybe and you know together 44:44any way to merge it in the future is it margin like is it possible to let's say merge your economy no i don't i don't think so and then and then if you wanted to do like a a w etc to wetc liquidity pool it wouldn't make much sense because then you would be on a price curve opposed to just unwrapping and 45:02rapping so it really doesn't make much sense and at the end of the day it's just it's not very much etc in their product and then uh and so anyways out of proportion we've seen it on uh on 45:23weth for a very long time and uh and so anyways so it just kind of is what it is so just for uh clarity are you you're using the original wetc or did you deploy a new one no we deployed uh we did the contract from 45:42the uh w e t h dot io uh we deployed that and that's what we'll be supporting for any of our protocols and so we'll just be supporting that and then we set up a repo for it uh and just mind you there's no financial incentive for it you don't make 46:00money doing this this is it's not custodial um you know no one's touching your pond you can wrap and unwrap as much as you want uh and so so anyways and then and then we ended up the the original one has zero ethernet or etc in it just to give you a reference 46:17um there was a wrapped uh a wetc in saturn protocol as well uh i think it was a little bit different i don't know if it was an erc20 so it didn't necessarily follow that standardized thing of uh of the project that we followed i think it was an uh erc 223 46:36i believe was the version so i think that's what they did uh we saw one with chainbridge i believe as well um if you remember that that uh project um and and they just they looked like they weren't being used very much and so but it's the same contract uh the ver sorry 46:55the very first one that was deployed is the same contract but there's just no transactions so someone might have just deployed it uh just to test out or whatever if you look there's maybe like 13 wetc's that are deployed you can just look on blocks about block scout just type in wetc pretty 47:15uh simple to create a little application that allows you to convert between different wtc's if you like with just single transactions instead of having to do two it should be fairly straightforward yeah and if if you're in the protocol um also like just go to the swap protocol and 47:32uh and you can do wetc to etc and we're talking about you know uh very small fees um to do so so it's it's really uh a small issue this uh maybe next week or another time but 47:51uh donald is asking in the chat whether it's possible to do a demo this uh a demo um i think if you've seen any unit swap you could just youtube uniswap it's it's literally the same projects so there 48:10is plenty of content on this um you should be able to find something like that it all functions the same swapping protocol uh deployed to etc in the form of heavy swap and i was wondering 48:30if you could highlight some of the differences between those these two projects i mean i think it's good to have competition so yeah go ahead with yeah and i i actually don't think that it's competition i actually uh i mean uh roosky had asked us to add heebie to our list um 48:49so i did that um the greatest thing is that if you have two pairs on chain you can just you get volume just keeping those in price parity so you know so it's not really a an issue on that uh it's actually more favorable to have two on-chain swaps um but i think i i'm not super familiar with 49:08their product i just have looked at it and i see uh you know we just have different offerings on our tokenless coins um you can certainly ask the [ __ ] team about their project i i don't know too much about their token or anything like that i'd say their swap is about the same i've 49:26used both um it's just i guess you don't have any uh analytics built into your swap yet right which i think we have a bullet on we talked to the graph and it sounded like they're doing a migration away from hosted services and 49:46the graph is the is the protocol that um is being used in uniswap to get all their analytics and so they don't natively uh support etc right now it was messaged that they might be able to add it after their migration off of hosted services i believe they're doing 50:04some sort of decentralized setup i don't know too much about it but it sounded like q4 would be when they would be able to add etc and that's a great lift for the entire network because um it allows you to pull on chain data and create analytic dashboards for 50:22any protocol not just ours but anything on chan on the etc network so if you think about the defy ecosystem uh kind of evolving on etc uh that's a great asset um for for visibility on what's going on yeah i'd say if you don't mind like not having 50:41analytics or whatnot it's it's literally the same thing between heavy swat swap and uh ethereum classic swap i'm just curious here um can you can you just share some thoughts about 51:05trading is changing with subs and high frequency trading moving towards this technology maybe some 51:24cool features for uh for traders or investors that that was kind of uh one of the elements of integrating the bmb chain for the bridging is for high frequency traders 51:41to keep centralized uh markets and pair with the on train markets on etc uh for these stable coins for instance um lower fee to get from to the centralized exchange 51:59and then get back to the etc network and we think that that's the route that makes the most sense especially um since binance will will do that the any conversions over inside their product and most high frequency trading outfits uh should be plugged into them um and then and 52:19then that was kind of the is the goal i think right now by us setting up the analytics and getting the apis functioning correctly and all of that um is to start getting botted volume that is literally just keeping price parity between these liquidity pools that are meaningful and the centralized 52:38exchange um i don't know if i have anything cool to say outside of that i think that high frequency trading people would look at that and say yeah that makes sense i mean they'll make you know they'll make money doing it and if the fees through the bridge are pretty low um 52:57then that means the price parity can't get too far out of whack um the other thing would be liquidity depth right so if there's deep liquidity then you can do a bigger a bigger size which gives you a bigger profit um on each uh each trade so 53:14that's the goals hopefully hopefully we start seeing that functionality but there's a lot of stuff on the back end that we have to do to make sure the um api and all the analytics and all of that's working for the bot traders any uh any plans on like uh creating advanced tools for trading like you know like a somewhere 53:33like us decks or whatnot the app i think our lift is pretty much we're rounding the end of what we're gonna do for this swap product um we'll probably get it plugged in and maybe get it uh listed on cmc and coingecko those type of 53:54things like i'm talking about you know what's that um there's uni swap what's the other one like coin uni or the one with the unicorn or whatever the the evil looking i forgot what's the other decks that came out yeah i mean what was it one inch yeah one inch the advanced kind of like razor would be a 54:14different product i think that's a dex aggregator so maybe maybe they'll tie into this um in the future we'll see that because i think that they're multi uh networks i think that they go through multi-chance on one inch i'm not i'm not sure so don't quote me on that one um but uh we wouldn't be i don't think we'll be building 54:33that product uh you know maybe down the line we'll talk to them and look at integrations or anything like that but um no plans on any any one inch clone etc then it seems like someone else can do 54:53that uh another low hanging fruit project just to deploy yeah that's the hopefully we start seeing other developers kick up you know uh we don't have you know our team doesn't have any plans to you know do everything and all of that um it's an open open network so i'm sure we'll see people 55:12there's financial incentive to do so so i think we'll see people uh starting to deploy i think a big issue is just you know finding um developers that that are actually like known or been around and you can somewhat i know we say don't trust verified and but i'm just saying at the same time some 55:32random nobody appears and hey i got this uh one-inch clone right and then everybody puts their money in it next thing you know and it's gone you know um i guess not everybody can verify contracts and read all that stuff you know what i mean so a lot of people are still going to fall victim to it so that's 55:50why i say it would be nice to see a a team that has somewhat of a name and credibility to itself to create something um to aid this you know because you've created something really good and i do think ethereumplasty.com has a really good potential in the future uh and i think the route that you have taken is 56:10you know it's by the book it's really it's proper so i think you did a good job on that but it's just it's very hard to uh you know all these we're still waiting for people to come over and start developing the ethereum classic 56:29but at the same time with all the hacks and [ __ ] that happened in the ethereum classic it's almost like man you can't trust it it's just it doesn't matter even if you've ever people verified what uh the saturn down all this other stuff that [ __ ] are gone yeah never going to hear from them and uh so it would be nice to see a team that 56:49has somewhat of credibility or somebody a developer that has some sort of uh years of credibility on the ethereum classic chain to create a product that us not us but like you know newcomers and even myself included can somewhat um trust 57:08before we even you know go any further or even like even bother looking at because at this point it's just anything that comes out on atc is just like it's trash i'm not even gonna look into this because it's probably another 57:19[ __ ] scam yeah i mean i think using any new protocol in this space is very 57:38tough and i agree with you that um it's hard to trust things when there's scams are so prevalent everywhere on many networks so i don't know how to solve that um but anyways i definitely i agree with you it would be nice to see reputable big 57:56development teams start coming over to etc and hopefully um that happens as hash rate increases and interest increases i think miners are a big element to that um and definitely in terms of 51 attacks uh hash rate is important and so i think that's the first step and i 58:15think i think we're seeing it happen it's just it's a lot slower over here due to uh the different type of funding mechanisms for sure do we know if like uh majority of the notes still run in mess or default but 58:33uh yeah hopefully after the merge we can get rid of that um just for the uh comment on the idea of trusting developers and apps i think that uh for a lot of the the the projects that have been deployed on ethereum mainnet and they've been shown 58:53to be trustworthy or at least not buggy then it's fairly easy to sort of like copy and paste the code and verify the code is the same so if if the protocol is just completely trustless in how it operates just like with uniswap then you don't really need to trust anyone so as long as you can ask one developer 59:12to say hey is this code that's deployed the same is it verified in the explorer and am i accessing it through a trusted source like through ipfs then there's very little that can go wrong in terms of scams in 59:32terms of credibility where you can it's not really very wise in terms of security to just go public and say hey this is my team and give give the names give everything right 59:52so to achieve that credibility because the world is not really if you if you look at kraken for example they they had to move office 1:00:11from one part of the country to another place because some employers got attacked four months ago or six months ago so there's also security aspects that need 1:00:29to be taken in consideration so anonymity if it's cool if you have if you have audits on on your product and you basically fork well known and good projects who proven stability 1:00:49for high volumes and i don't know moving money so i think it's okay well i think there's also a level of professionalism and uh you know who you're dealing with you know a 12 year old can fork a code and put it up there like hey you 1:01:08know i'm creating this token to support my down blah blah and he doesn't know what the hell he's doing you know or where to even start just it was a quick money grab and then there's you know a team that's it might be anonymous but they're known for their work for years and they create something and you can tell it you're working with professionals here and 1:01:28create something professional and you're more likely to have something that has a future so there's also that aspect to where like you know why would i use this versus over that you know what i mean so yeah i understand you but you you need to understand that uh you you can expect from from 1:01:49from a team who launches a product to also educate their public and let them know i think overall there is no way to to help users as um uh 1:02:11training or uh giving more information about what they are getting into for for me now after i don't know eight years i think um well that's what i mean by credibility it's a lot easier it's a lot easier for me to to distinguish between 1:02:30projects but in terms of uh noobs coming down the pipe well i don't know they they should really understand first of all um the stock market and then you 1:02:49know see this more riskier place other 1:03:09comments on uh brother's project i'll just say i think there was a good point in there of um uh contracts that have audits on them and such and uh and that was something that we tried to do uh just best practices is we tried to use uh contracts and code that had already 1:03:28been audited had thorough review uh and that's actually uh with multi-chain with the bridge um they had had fresh audits i think they had three fresh audits uh if you end up going into the repo the github.com swap i think we aggregated all of the audits 1:03:46in a folder called public audits um we ran some internal tests too and then we we saw you know like for instance with uniswap v2 are there any new exploits since their last uh detailed audit you know stuff like that and uh and i think that's really important for anyone that's um 1:04:07putting things up on etc is that you try to lean into audited contracts opposed to writing custom code all the time not only does it is it really helpful in terms of reducing resources that are necessary but you get to lean on all of those security expenses that have already 1:04:26been paid um and so anyway so uh so every contract that we used uh had been audited and reviewed uh and then for uniswap v2 you guys know there is serious value that is going through there um so those contracts uh and that's true for qb swap two if the contracts 1:04:45are identical those contracts should be you know that you should have a lot of trust in those in the sense that there has been a massive bounty on the eth network to hack all of those contracts and um and that hasn't happened so those would be the big target right so anyways um just 1:05:03wanted to just point out that uh that that's what we tried to do was use audited contracts classic website there is uh for apps that are listed on there there's a trust checklist which we've talked about in previous 1:05:21course so for people that do want to figure out what level of uh quality a project has um they can quite easily uh glance at the website and and link to all the various different audits and uh things that are considered objective and measurable 1:05:38in terms of adding a level of uh security i hesitate to use the word trust but uh i guess people have more ability to trust projects the more of those things that they check off and one of those things is an ipfs gateway and 1:05:57so that allows you that if the user interface goes down on a centralized service you can always interact with those contracts through the ipfs gateway um so that's really secure for someone that might worry that oh my gosh what happens if the site goes offline you well these are 1:06:15decentralized contracts so as long you know and now you're getting a decentralized ui ux right so so you'll always be able to interact with these protocols if you have that ipfs gateway and so i'm not sure if other 1:06:33dapps are doing that but if they're not they definitely should uh should try to start setting up ipfs gateways for their their applications that it's content addressed so if there's an audit that specifically references 1:06:52a version of the front end with a specific hash then the end user can be sure that the code that they're interacting with is operating as intended and has not added any malicious code to it so there's 1:07:04a few benefits to using ipfs sometimes sometimes it's pretty ridiculously slow it will load um other times you 1:07:24don't even notice that you're using a different path to interact with the protocols so i highly encourage anyone that's looking around at our at our protocol to use the ipfs gateway and just test it out just get a feel for it it's good security 1:07:42practice for sure it's related to etc co-op so you probably know and maybe 1:08:01discuss they will open a grant program so are you guys thinking about applying and if yes uh what what are the the areas you you are more most interested in bob's 1:08:23uh grant goals and i think some of the stuff that we deployed already addresses those and so i had mentioned that if uh he wants to pay out grants for those that he could just you know add that add those funds into the liquidity pools i think that's a better use for him if that's 1:08:42what he wants to do um but they haven't formally uh listed any grants and he had mentioned that last cost so um so i thought just based on his notes in his 2021 report uh that we had accomplished many of those goals just in this product um 1:09:02on chain uh punching uh price oracles and such um but it's up to him he he controls all of those uh if we receive any grant from them all we would do is deposit them into these liquidity pools um so it's 1:09:20it's no issue for us about price oracles and uh now with these different assets there is a a means for contracts to be built upon this by reading the current price from from your contract so interesting 1:09:40uh potential next steps yeah there is a lot of thought and that that's why these pairs were targeted in this product so um there's some security features built in to you know swap v2 for on-chain protocols obviously we like to see liquidity increase and everything because you can start to adjust the price 1:09:59pretty easy with just a couple hundred bucks but it does take in uh the time value and all of that um or uh sorry blocks and the timing that the markets have been live um and so anyways there's ella there's elements in there um i think it'll be a great lift later on i definitely wouldn't uh trust the price 1:10:19oracles right now if i was setting up adapt uh but i hope to see people plug into these and use those in the future um also just you know general swapping functionality uh of getting tether or any of these points inside a different dap totally a different 1:10:38ui ux here um you know i don't know what people will build but i know that this is these are foundational markets for etc um so hopefully hopefully the big lift that i see uh materializes over the next couple years with this launch multi-chain 1:11:00uh has any like contract interface in terms of pricing product in that type of depth awesome 1:11:17guest to have one point in the agenda uh 1:11:36and i'll combine these into one which is website content and the merge and roadmap or updating the classic website and uh i guess uh ronin you put these points together did you have any thoughts on this 1:11:59okay so sorry is this minor content is that where we are on the bullets yeah yeah just generally i guess website updates oh yeah yeah yeah so i think my questions here were um especially for the mining community uh how are the guides on the website uh for 1:12:17getting people onboarded to etc from other networks uh you know i think we have a decent mining community if if we have dated guides maybe they can help out uh updating those um it's really just hey are we prepared to onboard miners for 1:12:36the merge event that's the general question here effort put into a migration guide i'm not sure if it's still up to date but definitely something 1:12:54worth looking at doing anything or uh working on anything before the you know before the end of 2022 and 1:13:12do we also have labs as labs working or they're just out of the picture completely this lab still contributing to ecc labs i believe have exited the ecosystem so labs no for etc co-op probably the latest update is their uh recent overview 1:13:32and roadmap of 2022 and you could also listen to the last week's call which we had with bob and discuss some of the goings-on tldr on that uh was i believe they're doing some stuff with clients um listen 1:13:52for the specific details uh they have not issued any grants yet for the grant stuff uh but it's 250k in total and i believe they said that they were going to do that this year so should look out for those um and then i believe we were talking about rpc endpoints 1:14:09and the org and it sounded like terry from labs personally owns the dot org or controls it and so bob was reaching out to him and seeing if he would donate it over to the co-op um or do something uh to set up uh a static url 1:14:26for the um the rpc endpoint um i think those were the big takeaways um it was a highly informal our informational call last week so i would definitely go back and listen to him all right 1:14:39thanks that 1:15:07and uh that's right uh for me transactions without just uh adding it because yeah i also tested adding but uh i just want to make sure the rbc or else correct they should be fine if it's adding metamask automatically checks for the 1:15:27chain id so the rpc url is fine um i think the blockchain explorer i'm not sure uh where within ms that's used so uh it'd be nice to see if anyone can check that transaction and then you just look it has 1:15:46a button to say check on chain and i'll actually i'll check one right now while we're you on block explorer yeah that that was fine um yeah so i just changed network networks in it it auto config back to etc so it ended up working for me uh hopefully 1:16:05i believe you left a note for everyone to try that uh that button on the on the deploy website yeah in general i mean if it's if it's working i i can't see why we can't merge it but it'd be just nice to get an additional check before we uh yeah yeah different 1:16:24browsers and everything different devices all of that right yeah mobile as well i haven't checked on potential user interface question that i guess i'll float um it 1:16:44would be possible to hide the button if mask is not installed but that might be confusing i thought it would just be better to show it and if they click it just says mask not detected so any thoughts it metamask not installed that seems fine 1:17:09to that add-on that's a good point a link to the uh from play store or mad mask 1:17:24website now for people to onboard into gym 1:17:38classic self-reporting form we need to make a blog post to organize that is the twitter account that's gone stale and 1:17:58uh and i was just looking at how we would adjust info to add a second twitter account if we needed to um as we had talked about running a twitter account out of the github repo similar to how the orgas ran uh with those type of reviews and and checks and balances um 1:18:16and so one was looking through that they have this new function where uh instead of pinging them with the stuff that needs to be updated you can actually uh apply to be a self-reporting uh entity and that and you won't be able to adjust like the market cap which would move you up and down 1:18:34the list but just basic things about like about the project and just the basic content and perhaps and um add and remove uh uh social uh assets and so um so that's what i was looking at it and uh my ping was to see if 1:18:52co-op and what other emails uh we wanted to use to say hey um these ones like give these people access to update the coin market cap page for the project um and so if we did that we don't have access 1:19:11to the twitter right so how we could verify is we could do it through the blog on the org site and then coinmarketcap can verify that any contacts that are added to that list um uh are valid so anyways that the uh in this agenda you can see the the 1:19:30form that they have and uh that was the general thought about it was trying to get that new twitter account that we've been talking about that would be managed out of the github repo added into that coin market cap list so that there would be two twitter accounts 1:19:47listed in there thing to consider is about uh transparency regarding which accounts are able to make updates and stuff but i see it's fairly small um responsibility so hard 1:20:04too co-op and thinking maybe they should be the people to do that uh i think that's a pretty low lift and uh and you know it kind of sits in in their realm like 1:20:272019 we did go through all of the socials and we updated a lot of stuff back then i just don't think that that's happened since about 2019 that was back with that website revamp that happened so this would get in line with all of that 1:20:55the re-talk if anyone has any uh topics they're interested in discussing or questions please 1:21:02feel free to jump in channels 1:21:22to see if there's any questions needs a mcdonald's 1:21:39hat but apart from that i think we're good so uh final call for comments and questions and then we can wrap things up trading 1:21:58analysis next time we'll see when next time means i don't know if you can answer it is co-op still working with with charles by chance or in 1:22:14any in any way as far as i know market 1:22:33updates uh in a future call and on that note uh the next call uh is gonna have a unspecified time again it's probably not gonna be next week or the week after but hopefully we continue and have these at least for the next few months uh maybe 1:22:52monthly maybe bi-weekly but uh following uh september in by q4 we should be back on a weekly schedule uh at a more yeah routine interval so if there's any other final points now it's 1:23:11the final time if not we'll wrap up this week and we will see you next time take care bye bye

Ecosystem Updates, ETCSwap, Multichain Bridge

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General Discussion / Ecosystem Updates

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