Next Fork EIPs & Post-AMA Debrief

0:04Istora MandiriHello, and welcome to Ethereum Classic Community Call number 49. Today is Friday, April 3rd, 2026. This community call is an open voice chat discussion about Ethereum Classic. Everyone is welcome. The call will be published on YouTube. We kindly ask discussion stays focused on ideas rather than individuals, and let's keep it classy. The next call is scheduled for 17th of April. You can join us in the green room on Zoom one hour before the scheduled call for an unrecorded hangout, and you can find past episodes, transcripts, subscribe to the calendar, and more at cc.etherumclassic.org. Today's agenda, we're going to talk about some ETC cooperative development updates. We're going to talk about NextForks EIPs, hopefully with the core developer, Diego. We're going to talk about the Bitmain AMA that we had last week, and some of the fallout from that. And if he joins us, we will be talking about Gravity Lab's proposals, covering Elysium and… some quantum resistance. So… That's our agenda today, and we'll kick things off with some quick introductions of people that have joined the call. I will… Start with myself. I'm Astora, hello. You may have heard my voice before. I'm involved in Ethereum Classic, I help organise the community cause. And this week, I'm interested in talking about the… solidifying of… the next fork spec. So… That's my interest. I'm going to introduce you guys one by one, and if you could also maybe talk about yourself and something that you're interested in talking about on this call. So, let's go with, Akram first. Hi. Thanks for joining. 1:53AkramThanks, Sistera. Hello, everyone. Hey, Lunar. Hey, Diago. I'm Akram Sharif, basically based out of the Bay Area, in California, US, and I've been building agents for the last 3 plus years, and I got introduced into Ethereum for Magicians, the ETH Classic. And that's how I'm, started attending the call since last year, late of last year, I would say, fall timeframe. And quite excited to be part of this community and would like to contribute to the growing discussions, brainstorming on new ideas. Thank you. 2:23Istora MandiriThank you, Anka, welcome. Diego, are you here? I can hear you now. 2:29Diego López LeónCool, awesome. 2:33Istora MandiriCool, would you like to just introduce yourself briefly and say… talk about what you're interested in talking about on this call? 2:40Diego López LeónYes, sure. Well, hello, everyone. I'm sorry for missing the last two, community goals. I'm Diego, I'm core developer, I'm working for the Ethereum Classic Cooperative. everything I said here is, my own opinions. I don't speak in behalf of the cooperative at all. And, yeah, I'm here, and I can share you my progress in different projects and what I've been doing. 3:13Istora MandiriThank you, Diego. And Luna Warden? 3:17Lunar WardenHi guys, I'm, I'm Lunar. I'm a crypto trader. I, I'm… I'm interested in talking about… I guess how… how… maybe the next hard forks, if we need the next hard forks, and just sort of, like, the… the future… the future of the, of the protocol. 3:40Istora MandiriOkay, thanks everyone for joining, and if you do want to jump in at any time to comment, just… just speak. There's not many of us, so you can just jump in. And, yep. Thank you for joining. I'll start by just reviewing the pull requests that have happened in the last, between the last call, and basically we have some good progress on the Ethereum Classical website. We have merged a article about the fee market debate between Olympia and alternatives to Olympia, so that is now public, and This'll be the first time that There has been… notification, I guess, on the main website about alternatives to Olympia, so that's good, and this opens the door to publishing additional articles specifically about Olympia, or alternatives to Olympia. With a disclaimer that can link to this article. The reason that… I think it's good to have this article, is to make sure everyone's aware of what's, what's on the table, instead of just having one side without the relevant disclaimers. So, that has been approved by Cody and merged a couple days ago. So, hopefully we can move on from this and start publishing more articles now. There's still a couple of… things that were opened that are still kind of in debates, and maybe, Diego, we can discuss this now, which is the… There was a pull request opened on the Ethereum Classic org website to move the call Geth URL from where it currently is to Ethereum. Classic. Domain? And just for the listeners, basically, the Ethereum Classic Community GitHub org is… Admined by Cody, and… maintained by… people that have been given the maintainer privilege by Cody. And I'm one of them, Diego's one of them, Chris Burns is also one of them, and the migration from the… existing… I think it's, ETC Labs scope, which is fully controlled by Diego at the moment. Would shift a kind of… a change in control of who's able to push code into that repo. So, there's currently a PR open to move from the existing ETC Labs. scope to the community-maintained one. And that's undergoing discussion. It would be nice if people Have any thoughts on that? Diego, did I explain things right? And is there any other context you think I could add there? 6:34Diego López LeónNo, I think you described this, correctly. Well, I made my… my perspective on this matter public in… in the pull request. I think, moving a client into the, like, main… organization is… may give the wrong signal to the community, because Overall, Ethereum Classic is a protocol. And there is not a default implementation of it, of a canonical one. It happens to be that CoreGet nowadays is the most popular one among users, but that could change, and hopefully change in… Because, I mean, that means that we may have better clients, or a variety of clients. And… and I think, like, keeping it aside will give, like, a… Like, a fairground for every… everyone else to… to have their own client and to compete for the user share, basically. Also, with regards of play and diversity, I think it's an interesting topic that I'm really interested in. Because, like, having a single client. will give, again, like, the wrong signal that the implementation is the protocol, and not the other way around. And that's because sometimes bugs could happen, and if you have a single client, eventually that bug will become the consensus, and that's not great. So, the idea behind having a client diversity is that, okay, you can have some flow into some client, but the protocol itself is quite safe, because you will have different Participants in the network using different protocols… different clients that hopefully will have the same… the same problem, or the same bug. Thank you. 8:40Lunar Wardenwhen you… 8:40Diego López LeónBut… 8:41Lunar WardenWhen you say protocol, Like, what exactly do you mean? Is it, is it, like, the common… Yeah, because the protocol changes with various upgrades we do. 8:56Diego López LeónYeah. 8:56Lunar Wardenwith various ACIPs. 8:59Diego López LeónYeah, exactly. What I mean when I say protocol are exactly the ACIPs or the EIPs that we are inheriting from From Ethereum. Basically, what I mean by the protocol is that the specification itself. So the protocol, or the Ethereum Classic, is more than anything a specification on how a distributed system of computer has to behave. But that's, in essence, what the blockchain is. Then, it happens to be that we need clients to implement that protocol, but before we have the protocol, the specification, and then we go to the client. That's what I meant. I don't know if I was a bit more clear. 9:42Lunar WardenYeah, that clears that off, that clears it off for me. Thank you. 9:45Diego López LeónAwesome. 9:47Istora MandiriAnd just to add on that, there is no, like. one protocol document reference at the moment. It's basically just a delta of all the ECIPs that have been approved since, I guess, the hard fork? 2016 Hard Fork. 10:05Diego López LeónYes, but I think that's, I mean, everything that we have in the current consensus is, well-defined into the specs, into the protocol, or the ECIPs, so we don't have any gap there. Hopefully, I think. I'm mostly sure we shouldn't have any gap there. 10:26Istora MandiriOkay And yeah, just to echo… My comment in that… in that pull request thread, I also think that Yeah, having the intentional lack of Centralization, in clients especially, is really important, and it prevents, takeovers. It also prevents, Yeah, it makes an equal footing, as you said, for different… participants to introduce their own clients, and by… like, by putting CoreGeth into the Ethereum Classic org namespace, you're implicitly creating this, like, officialness for it. And that's a standard that other Clients that do come on the scene will then need to be, like, how do I become official, kind of thing. And… Yeah, it just… it doesn't seem necessary. 11:24Diego López LeónYeah, and, well, thinking in a more practical level, when… we had, like, conversation back at the time about moving ETC LabScore. to the Ethereum Cooperative. And we didn't do that because, I mean, there are many integrations that depend on checking certain URLs, and that's why we didn't… I mean, we didn't move it back at the time from ETC LabScore, where it is now, to ETC Cooperative, for example. 11:56Istora MandiriRight. And one of the questions I think Luna has brought up in previous calls, is about… How miners typically upgrade. Are they… they're checking against the… the repos? on ETC Labs, right? 12:12Diego López LeónYes, most likely. 12:16Istora MandiriAnd there is no, like, automatic upgrade mechanism or, like, notification within the client. 12:22Diego López LeónNo, no, no, and that's… I think that's… Probably by design, I mean, because that will be some sort centralization, and also, I mean, it's highly recommended before downloading a client. I mean, ideally, you should compile it yourself. So… Yeah, it would not be great to have any auto-update feature or anything like that. 12:49Istora MandiriYep. That's good. And it also means it's, like, quite difficult, then, for a… a fork To be introduced without explicit opt-in. for all participants, and there would… Yeah, absolutely. …need to… yeah. It's going to… It means the default state of doing nothing is quite strong, and it's a… it's a lot of friction to overcome that. 13:18Diego López LeónYes. Yeah, I mean, you have to… To gain the trust from… from the people using your software, basically. And so far, I mean, people have been trusting the record behind CoreGath. So that's why they are choosing it, but it doesn't mean that it has to be this way forever, and we cannot, or that we cannot introduce different clients. That's something I'd really engage. I mean, I'm working, like, quite hard for that to happen, but yeah, we can move to that part later on in this call. 13:54Istora MandiriYeah, actually, that is the first topic on the agenda, so this ETC Cooperative Development Update, Maybe you can… Cool. You can start riffing on that? 14:04Diego López LeónYes, well, quite recently, I think a few days ago, I published into the Ethereumcooperative.org website. A section, for the… all the development effort we have been doing for the last, like, couple of months, or, like, more than 6 months working on this. Basically, I've been working heavily into this client diversity thing. The reality is that, currently, CoreGef It's quite outdated, and it's quite behind, like, the latest releases of, GoEthereum, and… it's constantly more and more difficult to catch up to them. And it's… that's because of historical reasons, or the way that, Gorgeth was evolving, and the different directions that, Gorgeth was taken, like, removing everything related to proof of work, and that makes… Like, on every release, it's harder and harder to catch up. Starting from the, the current code, code, Core GF status. So that's why I started to think, okay, if that's the main problem, if we need to have, like. like, people with a deep knowledge of GoEthereum architecture, and a lot of knowledge on Go, but it's more important to have knowledge on the Go Ethereum internals to perform that, those, those upgrades. What can we do there? So, I started to think, okay, there are different clients, there are clients that are more plugin friendly, there are clients that they have support for multiple chains, so what we can do there? At the beginning, we also had, support for ETC in Besu. I was a committer there. But then the cooperative decided to drop support there, in Vesu, so eventually they, they dropped support for ETC, because it was, like a problem for them to, to keep searching use cases when they wanted to refactor their codebase oriented to proof-of-stake. Ethereum. So, they eventually dropped support for Ethereum Classic. But Besu and, for example, Nethermine, both of them, they have really good plugin systems. So, what I did was to, first with Nethermine. I took Nethermine, and then I kind of redefined everything that it's… related to ETC, I put it into a plugin, and basically I made it work. So, now we can have, upstream, never mind, but almost upstream. We have to wait until their next release, because while I was doing all this development, I found out a bug into their codebase, and I said the PR, they already accepted it, it's in their, in their last latest main branch, but it hasn't been released yet. So, so far, we have a custom version of the 136 version, plus this fix I made. So, if we have the right upstream. Nevermind version, we can just unload our plugin and through the DLL into a directory there, and then you can start another client with full EDC support. And that's great, because basically, we are talking about less than 2,000 lines of code. For me, that was something, yeah, yeah, like, like, game-changing. Like, in terms of support, yep. 17:56Istora Mandiripeople don't realize how awesomeness is, I think. And it's like… I'm just learning about this for the first time in terms of how significant it really is, and I've seen you… you're now syncing with Mainnet, right? I saw one of your nodes, I think? This is… 18:12Diego López LeónYes, yes, I am. I've been having, like, this node for at least 3 months, I think, or 2 or 3 months, and it's working perfectly. The great thing is that the most of the burden is carried by the NetherMite team. So everything regarding synchronization and storage and all of that is a shared path among different chains. And… and yeah, so now we have that plugin, and it works… works great. Of course, I mean. It's under testing, we have to… I mean… it's… basically, I'm the only one running this, probably. But if we could get miners to put some portion of their operation using any of these clients, that would be awesome, or any other user that could have their own clients by using, Nevermind, that would be incredible. So it's… it's there. 19:13Lunar WardenOh, gosh, yeah. 19:13Diego López LeónYeah, go ahead. 19:14Lunar WardenI sort of… I missed what exactly was the development? We're using NetherMind, now, and that helps us quickly sync nodes, or store… I'm sorry, I, I… Could you just sort of, like. 19:28Diego López LeónYeah. 19:29Lunar WardenWhat was, like, the key development? 19:31Diego López LeónYeah, no, so basically, what we have here is now, like, a new client that has EDC compatibility. So, you can… you can choose CoreGath, or you can choose Nethermine now. For using Nethermine, you will have to download the… the… the upstream version of Nethermine, and add the plugin for EDC. I mean, it's not distributed into the same, turbo, but it's quite simple to… to integrate it. Well, actually, in the… in the repository, I made a task to create a single release that includes, so it's exactly the upstream, and includes the… the plugin, so you can download the distribution from… from the repository of the… of the plugin. But, I mean, you can take a look at the… at the GitHub action and check that I'm doing what I'm… I'm doing what I'm saying that I'm doing. I mean, just for… for… for security. 20:33Lunar WardenYeah, that… 20:33Diego López LeónThat's… Yeah, that's… that's, the progress in… in Nethermine. So, now that we had, Netherman running. Which was great, and also, we got really good relation with the team. They're an awesome team, really friendly people, really open to have new networks and new use cases over their platform, which is incredible. I mean, the extensibility that I never might have. It's, I mean, it's something, like, really… that really surprised me. I mean, it's, it's… it's chapel for them. It's incredible. Then, well… 21:10Istora Mandiritalk a bit about Nethermind as a… what's it written in? Is it performant? What are the main benefits compared to Geth? And how, like, what's the experience that you've had just with the I guess, deployment and general stability. 21:30Diego López LeónWell, I mean, first of all, well, it's written in .NET, I don't know, I mean, there are people that don't like it, people they like, I mean, it's… I don't care too much. I think it works really well, the performance is really good. I think, the memory footprint. I have to check, because I don't remember exactly the specs of the machine that I'm running it. From time to time, it tends to fix the memory usage, but overall, it's quite stable. what surprised me is the size. I mean, I run a full sync. In archival mode, and the database is quite small. I think it's… I don't want to… I mean, but… I remember it's around 100GB or so, so it's quite small there. And the stability is awesome, the login they have, it's something that surprisingly looks nice. I mean, it's nice to take a look at their console, like, just downloading and syncing. For a change, because, I mean, we are really used to have this, like, yeah, horrible bunch of text that doesn't say anything. In the case of Nevermind, it's really pleasant to see. And yeah, I think it's a… it's a really great experience, and once you have the… the plugin in is just, like, I don't remember exactly, but I think it's dash network classic, and then you have it, and also you can sync Mordor, too. So, yeah, it's something, like, it's really worth a try. I mean, it's a good experience. Of course, I mean… Yep. 23:20Istora MandiriSorry, go how long do you think, Until it's ready to be considered, like, supported, in terms of… Currently, you're in testing. What needs to happen, do you think, for this to be… 23:38Diego López LeónYeah. 23:38Istora Mandirito, like, recommended client, and put on the website. 23:42Diego López LeónI will admit, like, people use it. On… Okay. Yeah, I'm reporting. 23:47Istora MandiriI'm definitely gonna run, I'm gonna run this. After the call. 23:51Diego López LeónYeah. 23:51Istora MandiriTron Sync. 23:52Diego López LeónAwesome. 23:52Istora Mandirilook. 23:53Diego López LeónYeah, yeah, go ahead. 23:56Lunar Wardenmaybe I try, you know, first… first, I have to buy a bunch, and then first… and then maybe I run a node, or maybe I run at least, like, a small miner or something, so I'll give it a go, too. 24:08Diego López LeónCool. Yeah, for example, I implemented the… the mining layer, but I never… I never tested… tested it, because I don't have proper hardware for doing that, but it should work. I mean, it's everything there, it's, all the… all the RPCs are… are there. Hopefully those should work. I mean, I have my own tests, but those are unit tests. But, yeah, those should work too. That's, well, that's… that's for the Nevermind. I think that's the… the client that has, the… I mean, the modern client that has more progress in. Also, I've been working to do the same with Vesu, because I have, like, a piece of my heart there, still. And… Surprisingly, I was able to… to get quite far. There are a few changes that we need to do into the upstream, so… this is still not ready, it's under development, because I wanted to… to work at the same level as Ethereum Mainnet, but I've been discovering a few problems, problems even in the… So, there were a few problems if you were trying to… to sync Ethereum mainnet, actually. Because most of the time, if I find a problem in Ethereum, I have to check it also on Ethereum before the merge, because probably they will have the same problem, and it's easier for them to check that, because they don't used to have access to the Ethereum network, Ethereum Classic Network. So… when I report something, I have to sync it on Ethereum. So I've found a few, a few problems there, I'm trying to solve them, I already solved one. And I think it was already accepted. This second one is a bit more Problematic, because it's more internal, it's a way that they enable a parallel transaction, processing, and… And it's quite interesting, because it gets in the middle of problems that we used to have in the past, like the Shanghai attacks. So, for example. some of those new, like, optimization doesn't work well during that time of the synchronization, and there are a lot of people that forget that it happened, and tends to just sync the node using a snap sync or something quite new, and never make their own client go through the whole history. And when you do that, these things happen. I mean, this, this problem pops up. So, that's what I'm trying to fix right now on Bessoo, before jumping in into adding all the necessary interfaces that we need to… for making it work again. But I have an experimental version, and it's… yeah, it's moving forward, and it's working quite well. Also, the… the footprint for… for the code… for ETC-specific, it's not that long. I would say it's around the same number. I have to check. I never… I didn't do the check in Besu, but I assume it will be pretty similar to… To nevermind. Then, next, for those that are really attached, or having go Ethereum. clients, I've been also trying to experiment with a new and different approach than what we used to to do with, CoreGef. What I did there was, basically taking the… the upstream. And then I… reverted. Most of the… pull requests that removed proof of work, the proof-of-work, capabilities, basically. The support. So, I did that, and I did that in a way that's basically thinking that, I mean, to reduce the surface of conflicts in the future, thinking in future releases. So, how that would work? Well, basically, I created a lot of new, like, underscore, po… go files, and the idea with those files is that they will not have, like, conflicts in the future. And in certain parts of the… of the codebase of GoEthereum, I basically added a few, like, if both, then invoke this, or something like that. I mean, I tried to surgical… surgically like, find the right places to… to tie this, like, proof-of-work, concepts. And… it was working quite well, I can say, and I also… created, because this is really… I mean, it's quite simple to… to make a mess there. And what I did was to create, a div page. I mean, I created a wiki page, like, some sort of wiki, that will list every change that I added, and it compares my… I mean, the change that I introduced with the original of the… of the PR that removed that… that behavior. So the idea with that is that it should be quite simple for anyone to check if I am doing the same thing that they used to do. And that's because I don't want to introduce new bugs, basically. So, well, surprisingly, all that effort, kind of worked. I have a version of it, it's running the latest version of GoEthereum, with all these changes on top, and it's syncing quite well. I have to say the performance is really, really good. I just discovered a problem. in the upstream. But this is interesting, because it's a problem that it's… almost… I would not say impossible, but it's really difficult to happen in Ethereum mainnets, but it's more… it's more often… it's something that could happen more often on Ethereum Classic, because basically, it's a problem when you have two competing blocks coming from the same mining pool. So, that's something that… it can happen in Ethereum… in Ethereum Classic, but it's really difficult for… for Ethereum Classic to have two validators to propose the same competing block, so that's why they never experienced that problem. It is something that it could happen into their network, but it's an slashing cause for them. if there is a validator that proposed two different blocks. So that's why no one does that. But if that will happen, this… this, this bug will… will come up. So, hopefully… 31:31Istora MandiriFix that upstream, or is that gonna be a patch? 31:35Diego López LeónNo, no, I already… I already sent it to the upstream. Hopefully, they will, integrate it, and… yes, I mean, it's… it's quite small. It took me a while to… to find the right place, because it was something that… it was only happening… like, I could say, like, every 30 hours, so I had to put the note to run constantly and check in if I could spot, because, I mean, the… yeah, the symptom was quite horrible, because it was, like, a silent bag that stopped the sink. And, yeah, it took me a while to find this out. But, yeah, I called, and I sent the PR. I don't know about the… I mean, hopefully I don't… the last thing I want is to start adding custom patches for behavior. The only patch that we should have are for… for the… proof-of-work and Ethereum plastic rules, but not for behavior, because that will be, again, I mean, having to deal with A lot of things that we don't want to deal for the future. But yeah, time will tell. I don't know. 32:48Istora MandiriAnd do you have, like, a mid- to long-term… Idea of which clients are gonna be… ones that are recommended. Like, I guess CoreGeth becoming more difficult to maintain over time, maybe deprecated to switch to this Go Ethereum Classic? 33:07Diego López LeónWhat do you have in mind? Hopefully. Yeah, hopefully. I mean, of course we will need… to think about, the proper way to sunset Corgett, and… They give… give him a lot of the respect that he deserves, because it serves us really, really well for a really, really long time. We have to think about the proper way to sunset it, but the best way for doing that would be to… people start using different clients. Once we have that, I mean, we will be sure that we will not mean score against that much. 33:44Istora MandiriOkay. 33:45Diego López LeónI don't think it… I mean, yeah, that's what I have in mind. I mean, hopefully, people will start using different clients, and over time, we could tell them. Yeah, well, you know, probably the next car fork is not going to be implemented in Corgath. I'm sorry, I expect to not hurt your feelings. you have all these great other options that we can offer to you, and they're, like, really well tested. But that will take time, and it depends on the users. 34:14Istora MandiriCool. Yeah, it sounds like you've been very busy with maintaining 3 new clients. And also… 34:21Diego López LeónYes. 34:22Istora Mandiripatching cool guest, so it's. 34:24Diego López LeónYes. Yes, and also something else I've been working on, that's… like… like, infrastructure coming from the cooperative, is I've been trying to upgrade, the Catacom, which is, our multi-seq implementation of the IgnosiSafe. But, well, self-branded. But it's basically the same… The same coin base, just with a different brand. The version running right now is a bit old, and so I started to… Yeah, I started a new instance just for development and for testing. It's the latest version. I've been testing it, I think it works quite well. Same thing as everything else. I mean, anyone that could… that wants to test it is really welcome. I think the link for this Development version, it's in the… in the… will be in the… in the notes of this call. And, yes, and it's basically connected to both networks, I mean, so every save that you had into the productive version, you will see it into this new one. The same thing for Mordor, and it has a few new features, but those that came with, the new version. I think the version is 185, so you can check the release notes there and take a look what's new there for that release. But, also something else I'm looking… For doing regarding that is to deploy the one-for-one safe contracts. That will also allow… allow, new… new use cases. If you have, your, your safe running in 1.0, that will still be working and functional the same way, but, this time the, the… the interface will, give you some hint if you want to upgrade it to the new version, but that's it. I mean, you are… I mean, you can… you can keep using the version you have, nothing should change there. But if you want the new features, like, I think they have multi-chain and a few other things. You should upgrade, but it's something that's up to the users to do. Multi-chain is… 36:50Istora Mandiriquite interesting. Is that… so you deploy the same contract on multiple chains? Would that be… 36:55Diego López LeónYes. 36:57Istora MandiriEthereum and ETC, would they be able to talk to each other somehow? 37:00Diego López LeónI, So far, it will be, Mordor and mainnet. Okay. I don't know what about implementing different, I have to check, honestly, I don't know. It will not be that easy, I think, because you need indexers and, like, some infrastructure behind. Yeah, I don't think we cool… like, support… many other chains, because, I mean, yeah, our infrastructure is quite limited, so I think… 37:32Istora MandiriMaybe more just, like, as a technical… like, it's technically possible to have the same contract. 37:37Diego López LeónI think so. 37:38Istora MandiriYeah, okay. 37:39Diego López LeónYes, yes, yes, absolutely. Yeah. 37:43Istora MandiriAwesome. 37:44Diego López LeónYes, and also, yeah, it's not just about the contracts, because I think that will be quite simple to replicate, but the. 37:51Lunar WardenI don't want to interrupt, but we should at least talk about the Olympia situation at some point. So, please, let's finish. Let's… let's… 38:00Diego López LeónYeah, I'm sorry, yeah, you are right, yeah. I'm finished that. Take a look at the, new multi-sig, and that's it. 38:08Istora MandiriOkay, so just a… to underscore, like, there's a lot of stuff happening, and ETC Co-op is providing a lot of value, and Diego in particular. is, like, I think it's just… If not the most important. I mean, there's not many other people that could say they've contributed this much in the last few months to the network, so… I want to take the time to say thank you, Diego, for everything you do, and it's really important. 38:41Lunar WardenYeah, and it's, I heard briefly that there, there are They're making some moves to, like, Shut down the co-op. or… I don't know, Estora, do you want to… do you want to get into that? 38:56Istora MandiriYeah, I can, I can mention this. 38:59Lunar WardenIs that… 39:03Istora MandiriI… it's not that I'm gonna try and avoid it, there was just some, other… Items in the agenda about the next folk. But I guess, why not… why not just jump to that now? And basically, this ties in with the… The Bitmain AMA that happened last week, which, Went well from my perspective. But basically, I, at that point, announced the nolympiaddev.dev petition. Which is basically the first time there's been any major pushback, publicly, about the Olympia Hard Fork. And this has gained 20 signatures from people in the ETC community, and it shows that there is significant opposition to Olympia. In response to that call, and the publication of an Olympia.dev, basically, some of the Olympia authors. reacted in… a way that… I think was possibly… overreaction? But essentially, like, Cody's left the legacy Discord server. He's obviously not on this call anymore, I think that's related. Hopefully he can join us in the future. We're always open to everyone, so both Cody and Chris are always welcome to join the calls, but it seems they are boycotting them because I don't support Olympia. And basically, Yeah, Cody, as the board member of ETC Co-op. made some suggestions in the new Discord server that he wants to cut funding for ETC Co-op. I'm not sure why, I wish he was on the call to talk about it more. I don't really want to… speculate too much about his decision without him being able to comment on it. So, that's all I'll mention for now on that. Obviously, I think that's a bad idea, and Diego's really important, and Diego's, like, tied to Easy Sheet Co-op. I think whatever happens. there will be ways through other channels, that Diego can continue his good work on ETC, and I don't really understand thinking behind Like, shutting down the whole co-op just because some people don't support your proposal. Yeah, that's all I'll say. Open to other… People talking about it. 41:35JustjinWell, is… is there anything on that? That's… that is shocking. And Diego, thank you very much. Yes, I… I personally appreciate your work, yeah. 41:46Istora MandiriYeah, I mean, you can, you can, jump into the new Discord if the, The bots would… sorry, the… the… the filter… the sign-in filter, onboarding filter allows you If you jump in there, you'll see a long conversation that… Has happened. Between myself and Cody. 42:08JustjinYeah, I saw… I read… So, yeah, I read a bit of that, but wow, okay, I didn't know they were gonna do all that, but anyways, okay, I will review that. Yeah, I don't know… 42:19Istora Mandirithe app. 42:19JustjinYes. 42:20Istora MandiriSerious, or whether they're just frightening that, or what, but… 42:23Lunar WardenIt seems to me like we're heading towards two chains. It's, like… 42:28Justjinyou know. 42:29Lunar Wardenevery. 42:29JustjinI'll be reviewed. 42:31Lunar Wardenlike, it gets more serious with every week, you know, they seem really committed to splitting the chain. I'm wondering what makes them think it'll work. Like, I have to go actually see their Discord eventually, and maybe convince them to, you know, go back on these calls again, start speaking again. But… but it seems… what makes them… like, does anyone have any theories on… on what makes them think this… that this will work? Because it seems… it seems so plain to me that this is, That they're… that they're modifying, they're trying to… Modify the principles. 43:07JustjinYeah, I… I don't think it's a good idea to theorize on this topic. It's so… like, it's new to me, so I would… I'm blank, so… But… Yeah, I don't think it's a good time to talk about, like, you know, if they were here, that'd be awesome, but no, they're not, so… And, like… 43:27Lunar WardenWho does support… who does support Olympiad? So, there's… there's a few developers. There's, what Cody. 43:35JustjinWhether if they do or don't, I don't know. Like, I… I remember, Freebird saying that, he's, like, yeah, they were… they weren't gonna… they were gonna stop, right? Like, if it's gonna create a split, they're gonna stop, right? What, that's not gonna happen anymore, or what's going on? 43:52Istora MandiriWell, yeah, there's, Christmas, I commented maybe back last year in, I guess, november? Or just before November? 44:01JustjinMmm. 44:02Istora MandiriThat if there was a chain split, likely, of 90-10… 44:06JustjinHmm. 44:07Istora Mandirithen he would not push Olympia. And I think that's basically because he thought it would somehow get overwhelming support. Now, that is not so clear. He hasn't commented on whether or not he still holds that position. So… 44:25JustjinRight. 44:25Istora MandiriHe's also engaging in the discussion, either in. 44:29JustjinYeah, it's only… he only engages when it's advantages for him, it seems like, right? But then… and that's just my opinion, and I'm not trying to take any sides, but it just… Yeah, I've seen that… the… I've seen that… the pattern before, so it just… yeah. But I'm not… but I'm not trying to get involved in whatever… I don't know what it… I really don't know what's going on, but it's… yeah. Anyway, so, like, for DA… yep. 45:01Istora MandiriI would also say, like, It's quite… sad. Sad is not the right word. It's disappointing that developers are being forced into, like, political positions because of technical beliefs, if you know what I mean. And, like, people should just be able to have their, like, beliefs about Where things are going without being threatened. Funding. 45:26JustjinYeah, it's… that's… it's just odd that he's… yeah. Like, the position that he's in, like, like… Yeah, it just… 45:35Lunar WardenWell, I mean, the… 45:36JustjinWhy… 45:37Lunar Wardenthe move to, to, I guess, dissolve the co-op, it makes sense from his perspective. Like, if you think Olympia is the only thing that secures developer funding, and you dissolve the ETC co-op. Then it makes sort of sense to bring up… to explicitly bring about the question of, like, how exactly is developer funding going to continue? And so, it makes sense, it makes sense to sort of bring up that question. 46:08JustjinYeah, there were certain people with the keys, so it's, you know, it is what it is, right? So… But it is… 46:16Lunar WardenI mean… 46:16JustjinWe gotta think about the future now. It's like, what's going on? Like, with Diego, like, are they gonna support him all, like, until, you know, until all the funds run? I remember there's, like, funds in the… that, emergency fund, and I… like, if… if it's… if there's gonna be a split, or, like, co-op's gonna, like, like, go away, then I… I would call that, like, an emergency, or whatever, right? So, the people who have the keys for that, like, think about that situation. And then for, like, kind of, like, support Diego until, like, you know, because he's the only, like, the main… yeah. 46:57Istora MandiriYou are referring to the Community Fund, right, which I believe is about 10K. 47:00JustjinYeah. 47:00Istora MandiriEC, or something like that, and it's. 47:03JustjinYeah, or something like that. Yeah, it's not a good idea to touch, but then, like, what do you call… what would you call the situation, kind of, I don't know. 47:10Istora MandiriOh, honey. 47:11Lunar WardenHow many people are there, are there in the co-op that are, that are sort of, I guess, running the co-op, or… How many people are there in the co-op, and what's, like, the runway? How much? 47:24Istora MandiriIf I remember correctly… And look, I think we should allow, like, because this is explicitly related to the co-op, I think if Diego doesn't want to comment on this, I think that's perfectly cool, and… 47:38JustjinIt's like… For sure. 47:39Istora MandiriSo we're just speculating here as outsiders of the co-op, and we're not, like, involved in it. And I think it's, like, reasonable for Diego to stay neutral on this, if he wants to. So… as far as I understand, there's, like, basically Cody on the board. He's, like, the only active board member, and then you have Allison. doing… 47:59Lunar WardenI don't need to know the names, but roughly, like, you know. 48:04Istora MandiriThere's 3. 48:04Lunar WardenIs developer funding an immediate problem? Is it a… is it a medium-term problem? 48:09Istora MandiriNo, I think they have some runway. Like, they did report, and if… on the current burn rate, I think there's at least a couple years. 48:18Diego López LeónYeah, not that much, but, yeah, the reports are going public for, Last, last year, like, in a few days, or the next week. So you can, you can take a look at everything there. 48:33Istora MandiriCool. So we'll stay tuned for those updates, but… In terms of other funding sources, there are some. Like, we have The most obvious one being ETC Grants Now, which is Bitmain, and there's several million dollars worth of ETC and USDT, available for grants, so… There's that. There's also the fallback of the Community Fund. And… 48:58Lunar WardenI will… if those run out, I will personally, like… like, we'll figure out some charity, like, we will figure out, like, some way to… but it has to be unofficial, like, it has. 49:08JustjinWell… 49:09Lunar WardenLike, below the protocol level, or above the protocol level, or whatever. Bomb. 49:15JustjinWell, an idea would be, like… oh, sorry, go ahead. 49:20Lunar WardenNo, no, continue, continue. 49:22JustjinYeah, well, an idea would be for me, like, if, if, like, Diego was supposed, like, let's say they were gonna stop funding him, and then, like, and he was willing to stay on, but if there was, like, the funding there, right? Then I, like, I would, like, I would, I would… myself, because I'm doing stuff myself, but then, like, it's… yeah, I don't know if he'll do well or not, whatever, right? But then, I would… I'd team up… team up with him to do something and make a project for, what is that, Bitmain? Don't they have, like, grants or something like that? 49:55Istora MandiriYep, exactly. I think that's, like, the most obvious next step. And… yeah, maybe things are happening in the background that will help resolve this, And I think, like, the most… Realistic thing for long-term sustainability is not any kind of grant or any kind of protocol layer tax. The most sustainable thing is building businesses around ETC that can be profitable in themselves, and then that feeds back into ETC development. 50:25JustjinSo… Yeah. 50:26Istora MandiriI think. 50:27JustjinWell, I'm sure those things are in the works, but it's just, you know, like this, like, when it comes out, right? So… 50:34Istora MandiriYeah. I mean, do we know… Again, don't have to comment on this to yoga, but do you know how much runway there is? 50:43Diego López LeónProbably, yeah, less than a year. 50:50Istora MandiriOkay. So this is something that needs to be solved. In the next few months, basically. 50:57JustjinYeah. 50:57Lunar WardenIt's, it's some amount of time, it's some amount of time, to solve. 51:00JustjinYeah, a direction, at least, yeah. 51:04Lunar WardenBoom. Yeah, we should also, we should also think, Because, I mean, the Bitcoin, if we're comparing to Bitcoin, the Bitcoin has… the Bitcoin network has no hard forks since its, since its discovery, so… there's… there's, like, there's a sense where we don't need as many developers as, let's say, Solana or… or all these other things. So, like, our… our development team, our funding can be, like. You know, elite, elite and sort of small. So it's not. 51:36Istora MandiriAnd we also don't need to rush things. Like, there's no need to, like, spend a bunch. 51:41Lunar WardenThis is all, like, a community effort, basically, like, and it needs to be, it has to be, like, an unofficial thing for it to succeed. 51:49Istora MandiriYeah. 51:50Lunar WardenWe… we'll figure out. We'll figure out. But yeah, there is… I mean, we do have the ETC grants now, and worst case scenario, like, We… we can farm. We can find funders. 52:07Istora MandiriYep. Yeah, we have communicated. 52:09Justjinfund, and… 52:12Istora MandiriLet's just say that there may be some announcements from me in the next… Couple months, in terms of… Skin in the game. 52:22Lunar WardenAnd at the same time… 52:23Justjinsafe. 52:24Lunar Wardenlike. The way this is headed, like, it will actually be a chain split, and which is, you know, we should avoid that. We should try our best to avoid that. 52:33JustjinYeah. 52:33Lunar WardenI try our best to, 52:35JustjinYeah, 100%. 52:36Lunar Wardeneven if these guys are being unreasonable, we have to… we have to try to… we have to find some way where, you know, we don't change the protocol, but we actually get these guys still on board with us. So, you know, maybe… I think changing the protocol would be really bad, but let's try to not change the protocol and somehow convince the other guys. But right now, we're not even talking to them. They don't even want to join these calls. So, I mean, we have to go… we have to go to their Discord, maybe speak to them. I'll try and do that. Maybe convince them to join the next call, or just speak with them personally. 53:14Istora MandiriYeah, I mean, I'm in their Discord, and Cody, at least, is having dialogue, and to be fair, we're still kind of… fairly… Good terms? Like… It's jovial. But he did say that he didn't want to join the calls. Oh, and in fact, he did mention… Let me just read verbatim the message that he asked me to… Relay on the call. Okay, so he said… I invited him to join the call, he said, no thank you, and he said, please make it explicitly clear that Diego does not represent co-op, and I've recommended to the co-op board that they should formally support Olympia, and halt any funding and development that is in opposition to Olympia. The farce has gone on long enough. 54:02JustjinCool. 54:05Lunar WardenHow much, how much of the co-op board is, is developers? 54:11Diego López LeónHuh. 54:11Istora MandiriI believe just one. just… I mean, if you count… Cody is a developer, and he's the… I believe the only board member who is actively developing? 54:28JustjinHmm. Interesting. Yep. Whoa. 54:36Istora MandiriSo, whether or not Cody can actually have the board agree to this, I don't know internal cop, politics. And what's needed for this kind of thing to pass, but… It's quite. 54:47JustjinRight. 54:50Istora MandiriIt's, it's quite a big… 54:51JustjinFuck. 54:52Istora Mandirilike, move from Cody, I mean, he obviously believes in this thing, but… It's… 54:58JustjinHmm. 55:00Lunar WardenIt just, it seems… 55:01Istora MandiriIt seems… 55:02Lunar WardenIt's quite insane to me to think that, like, this could work, because you need to actually convince people to, you know, to run your code, run your blockchain, like, who… Who, who is, who is convinced by this? But maybe, maybe, maybe I'm in a bubble, like, maybe I need to see their other Discord, like, is there… are there, you know, huge exchanges that are saying, no, no, no, this is the legitimate ETC? Because… because after the fork, it's gonna be like, we're the ETC? No, no, no, we're the ETC. It's gonna be… it's just gonna be a disaster. So… Yeah, I got, like… 55:34Istora MandiriThat's the key thing they did, they kind of skipped the whole consensus gathering thing, and they just decided to do this and go ahead with it without really asking anyone, and that's why we're in this mess, unfortunately. So… I mean, you can look at all the Discord… sorry, the discussions on the ECIPs. There's literally no support apart from the authors, and everyone else is like, what is this thing? And this is what's wrong with it, and… Even those comments have been hidden, so they're kind of actively avoiding community discussion and consensus, and just going ahead with it, so… 56:09Lunar WardenLook, I mean. 56:09JustjinI mean, if. 56:09Lunar WardenIf they want to go form their own thing, like, we wish them the best, we hope their chain succeeds, or whatever, we have to make sure that, we, Yeah, I mean, we wish them the best, like, from their own community, based off of what. 56:25JustjinYeah, some people. 56:26Lunar Wardenthe real brand classic? Boom. Well, the… 56:31Istora MandiriThe other thing, the other thing that, again, I'm gonna quote from the Discord, if I can find the quote in a few seconds. But basically, Cody is… Positioning… Olympia as… like, it's not gonna be… we're friendly parting ways, it's gonna be, we're taking over Ethereum Classic, including the domain name, and you're gonna use a different… you're… you're not allowed to use the Ethereum Classic. Brand. Basically. 57:00Lunar WardenWhen you say domain main, do you mean the website, or… 57:05Istora MandiriThat was what was implied. 57:07Lunar WardenWe can use the name Ethereum, we're the original Ethereum, we can use… we can use… can't keep us from using the words. 57:14Istora MandiriYeah, I'm gonna… 57:15Lunar WardenCan't take over a word. We're the original Ethereum, like, we still are. 57:21Istora MandiriSee if I can find the quotes… Okay… So, this was in the… the old Discord server, and this is just before Cody left. He said. the ECIPs are out there, and… Read them as you like, you're free to call your minority chain whatever you desire. No Olympia should have good SEO. So, SEO is search engine optimization. The implication is that. 57:44Lunar WardenAnd you can't hide the truth through… through SEO. It's like, that's… that's not gonna be enough. You're gonna need, you're gonna need a lot of SEO, okay? It's, there's no… there's no amount of SEO in the world that can, like, hide the truth. 57:58Istora MandiriYeah, so… listeners of this call, if you're not in the Discord, things have been escalating quite substantially since the last week, and we are in this, interesting phase. And… We'll see how things go. I'm actually. 58:13Lunar WardenWell, we have to, you know, we have to take decisions to de-escalate, to de-escalate to find out, because… you know, each community call gets worse. It's like, you know, there's… there's a few… there's a few supporters and three calls back. There's, like, one of them, one call back, and now it's like, oh, now, you know, the calls are basically split. By the next session, you'll… they'll start their own call, like. It'll, it'll, like… I would actually encourage… 58:41Istora MandiriThey, they, they'. 58:42Lunar WardenWe just, like, keep the dialogue open, try and convince them to join our side. And if not, hey, we wish that we can't… you can't keep someone, you know, you can't keep someone in your country or in your chain or whatever, like, if they want to leap, if they want to leap, hey… They want to leave. We have to rob them of the good talking points, though, so we have to… we have to beat Olympia on… on developer funding as well, not just on the principals, but on the developer funding as well, and we have to find some way to do that, so… Best of luck. 59:11Istora MandiriYep. And if the Olympia authors are listening to this. Of course, we're always open to… talk. That's how we resolve things. We don't need to go through some… Crazy chain split event. We are prepared for it. And yeah, if you do have a call that's Olympia-focused, I'm happy to join, and I'll be on every call at any time. So, yeah, let's… let's at least have the discussion again, because… Otherwise… I don't know. Like, what's gonna happen if we're not talking at all? Okay. Anything else on Olympia, or should we go to the… the next walk EIPs. Okay, so… 1:00:10Lunar WardenLet's talk about the next work, the FEs, and let's also try and speak about, like, do we still need to keep, do we still need to keep hard forking? Like, let's… let's think maybe, maybe, could this… could this be, like, the last hard fork or something? Like, like, Bitcoin has none, you know? Like, why… why… why do we need to have hard forks? Like… But I'm open to, like, having, you know, I'm open to having, like, a few more, I don't know, I don't know. 1:00:39Diego López LeónYeah, I mean, the use case of Bitcoin and Ethereum are quite different, so it's really hard to think that our protocol could be ossified as fast as the Bitcoin one. That's the main thing. I mean. 1:00:55Lunar WardenThat's fair, yeah. 1:00:57Diego López LeónI mean, the level of complexity that we are facing in Ethereum, Ethereum Classic, it's way higher than… than Bitcoin. Like, we have estate growth, and we have, well, the EVM itself, there are many things that has to be… has to keep evolving. I mean, the direction that the Ethereum is taking towards, zero-knowledge proof, and statelessness, and all of that, it's really important for… for the… survival of the chain, and the scalability, so I think we have still a really long run until we can ossify the protocol. 1:01:37Lunar WardenMy, The EVM standard has been around for, like, years now, so it's, like, it's pretty… it's pretty, like, agreed upon. And with the other stuff, like ZK… ZK Snarks, or ZKSNARKs, or other privacy tech, or maybe some, like, future upgrades, it's like, this can all be handled by L2 or some other things. Like, I'm not sure, like. scalability isn't the thing that makes the ETC valuable. It's the, it's the… it's the trust that you can from… from, like, knowing that this chain, this chain, like, isn't the one that's gonna… It's gonna rug you, basically. 1:02:19Diego López LeónYes, yes, that's… that's true. But, Yeah, well, regarding the EVM, I mean, it keeps changing. It keeps changing with new opcodes, new ways to do things, and you have to… I mean, it's quite difficult to understand this, but the EVM, the EVM that we know today, it has been written in two weeks. All the spec has been written in two weeks, like, 12 years ago, and it hasn't changed that much. There was an attempt, I think 2 years ago. to modernize it, like in the… with EOF, it was an attempt to change the execution format of the EVM. Basically, the idea with that is that it will allow us… allowed us to actually ossify pretty much, the EVM execution, but that was rejected. well, it was a really, really long discussion, but with that, what I mean is that it's far, the discussion regarding the EBN is far from being closed. 1:03:35Lunar WardenYeah, I mean, that's… that's a fair opinion. I, Well, we could probably discuss this more on other calls, but that's sort of… my perspective is always, like, my perspective is always, like, man, we should try to be more like Bitcoin. I realize that's more complicated because of the EDM. But also, you know, we don't have to, just because… like, maybe, you know, I support, like, I don't know, the T-Store opcodes or whatever on Ethereum, but if they start making mistakes on the ETH chain, that doesn't mean, like, we should copy them, or even if they make Like, we're, we're not. 1:04:14Diego López LeónYeah, like… Now, of course. 1:04:15Lunar WardenWe're not… we're not trying to compete with… on scalability, so… 1:04:19Diego López LeónNo, no, no. promise. 1:04:21Lunar WardenYep, yeah, yeah. 1:04:24Diego López LeónNo, I mean, the problem will be when there are fair use cases that we cannot use on Ethereum Classic. And when you add some friction between the users. Like, for example, you will make the users to use a particular version of Solidity to port their applications, and that will be, like, a huge loss. But yeah. 1:04:48Lunar WardenYes, that's right. The great thing about Ethereum Classic is You know, people speak about, like, network effects and, and this sort of thing, like, it's valuable, you know, the network is valuable. Because of the network effects, there's so many developers on it, there's so many users on it, there's so many transactions occurring, but it is so easy to switch from ETH to ETC, it is just, like, if you're a developer, it's like you change one URL, you change the RPC you're sending it to, and it's like… Done. Or at least, you know, 90% there, right? It's just, like, the… it's… it's really, like, the value comes down to the… to the philosophical layer of it, so it's just… it would be very easy, as long as we stay, I mean, compatible to the EVM standard, but as long as… like, once… once people start sort of realizing, like, how… how easy it will be switched… to switch to ETC, it's like… You know, that's when the sort of floodgates open. Boom. Bill. 1:05:48Diego López LeónYeah, agree. 1:05:52Istora MandiriYeah, I guess the thing is that the EVM standard, in quotes. isn't itself ossified, really. It's kind of… Evolving over time as well, largely driven. 1:06:02Lunar WardenRight, right, different chains have their own EVM standard, there's no, like, agreed-upon definition. But the basic thing is there, like, you know, you know an EVM chain when you see it. But it's like… 1:06:15Istora MandiriThere's also, like, kind of… an observation that I had while you were talking about maintenance. So, maintenance is always going to be essential in terms of, like, software has bugs, the clients will have Security incidents that need to be patched. And there's… So, like, one of the main arguments for ossification is, like, having less requirements in terms of development, but it's not completely zero. And in that case, like, the ossification argument is weakened slightly, and now we're talking more about a philosophical, maybe political thing. So yeah, making it more difficult to introduce Hard forks that are not good. is a good thing, and that's one benefit of ossification, but maybe… 1:07:06Lunar WardenBecause every change can be thought of as, like, a political thing, right? Like, if you… just including the base fee, it's like, oh, this is political because it goes against the miners, or changing the block size, this is political because it changes, like, the incentives for I don't know, minors again, or some different party. Like, every small EIP, if it's, if it's to, you know. They… for small things, maybe it really doesn't matter. But, but there's, you know, there's all these sorts of, You could throw a fuss, you could say any particular change is like a political change, and then there's a risk of fracturing. And so that's why it's like, that's why the Bitcoin model of, like, you know, the core protocol is fixed, and then, you know, maybe, like, the soft ports happen on top of that, or there's, like, some improvements around that. And of course, like, the people, like, you know, Bitcoin developers, you know, there's plenty of funding. For them, like, because, like, the community itself, like, the large holders of BTC will fund, will fund the development themselves, and so maybe… 1:08:14Istora MandiriI guess another… another way of looking at it is, like, BTC is a calculator, and it does something very simple. You don't need to update the software of a calculator, it just works, right? 1:08:25Lunar WardenRight. 1:08:25Istora MandiriWhen you have, like, complicated execution, a virtual machine on top, then there's gonna be things that sometimes do need updating. And even if the goal is never implementing like… Changes to the monetary supply, or something like that. There's still probably gonna be things that you wanna… Include. And maybe we can talk about some of these things now. This kind of segues nicely into the Next Fork EIPs topic. So, if you are listening to this, you could jump into the cc.thrimclassic.org website, and there's a little list of the potential EIPs that We're considering for the next fork. We discussed this a bit on the last call with Cody, and he has a ECIP1121. which is currently using Olympia name, Hopefully they get, like, we can come to an agreement and… We use Olympia to specifically talk about the Treasury to reduce confusion. You can listen to the last call. 1:09:38Lunar WardenSorry, can I, can I… specifically on the name? I propose we call it the, the McIntyre update, in honor of, you know, we want to give this guy eternal life in honor of Donald McIntyre. Who has, who has contributed, so much. To the… to the Ethereum class community, I say we… we honor invite. If… if we do, if we're doing another hard port, let's… let's call it the McIntyre hard port. So that… that's just the small… I don't know, but that's… that's… that's the gesture. 1:10:10Istora MandiriInteresting. Yeah. I don't know how we can come to consensus on fork names, but… That's definitely something that I think should be considered. 1:10:21Lunar WardenYeah, because the Olympia people, they're… well, we'll see, we'll see how they feel. Maybe we can… 1:10:29Istora Mandirithe… the name… It comes further down the line, right now, like, figuring out what is part of the next hard fork is basically the point of one of the objectives of 112.1, and the idea is that it's just, like, non-controversial EIPs that can be flipped on quite easily. Diego, I think, has identified a couple of additional EIPs that can be considered. And also… Have some comments about… removing some of the existing ones that are on 112.1 at the moment, so… Shall we go down this list, Diego, and start with 7823? 1:11:16Diego López LeónYes, 7, 8… Let me check… Yes, I mean, those are part of my proposal for adding right? Okay, yes, this is for, this comes along with, some other one. Well, it's basically, increasing the gas cost for this, operation. It's for preventing certain attacks, so it's not… I don't think it's contentious. 1:11:53Istora MandiriOkay. 1:11:54Diego López LeónWell, but… 1:11:55Lunar WardenBoth of these. 1:11:56Diego López LeónI mean… 1:11:56Lunar WardenA lot of increase, or… 1:11:58Diego López LeónSo… 1:11:59Lunar WardenWhat the… What, what are we, what are we talking about? The 7823 EIP? 1:12:06Diego López León78… 7823 and 7883 are quite related. Both talk about the same… The same, opcode. Yes, so one is. 1:12:18Istora Mandirimod. 1:12:18Diego López LeónSetting an upper bound. Yeah, ModeXP. 1:12:22Lunar WardenYeah, yeah, they seem, they seem fine. 1:12:25Diego López LeónYeah, the other one that I will be interested in adding is the account leading zeros opcode. That's something that… Solidity guys, and I think… I don't remember if… I think it came from Solidity, but it could have come from Viper, but I think it came from Solidity. They requested this. It's a really interesting optimization for them. Also, the precompile for this new elliptic curve, the 255R1, and I think this one is the one that's being used by the phones. For their fingerprinting and so on, so it's. Interesting… Yeah, yeah. …bridge. 1:13:07Istora MandiriAs we discussed on a previous call, this could be used for pass keys, right? So you can sign messages with just the passkey, yeah, which is pretty cool. 1:13:16Lunar Wardenwere we supposed to be discussing EIP1121, or am I just… is this part of EI1121, or… 1:13:22Istora Mandiri1121 is like a meta-proposal by Kodi that has a number of other EIPs in it, and right now, we're trying to… Either we can come to agreement on whether Cody can update this EIP, ECIP, to have additional EIPs in it, or potentially we can create a new ECIP with a new set of these EIPs within it. But basically, it's a similar kind of approach, where we just want some basic upgrades inherited from it, from upstream. 1:14:00Diego López LeónYeah, like, for example, about, 2537 is that for the VLS precompile. I'm not against about adding it, I'm… I think I'm okay with it, but… At some… point that… I mean, in some perspective, BLS curves are being used for the validators of the Vicon chain in Ethereum, so I think this one has… was more meant for… for their chain. I mean, there should be other uses, fair uses for the VLS curve, but, right now, I think it's mostly used for the Vacon chain. I'm not against adding this, the precompile is quite simple. But it's just a note. I mean, maybe we can draw a line about what we include and what we don't, with regards of the… what are the necessities of Ethereum versus the necessities of Ethereum Classics, at least for now. But that's just a… a note, because there are some others that I will say that should be deferred, basically using those arguments. And that's… yeah, that's a note. 1:15:16Istora MandiriAre you aware of… 1:15:18Lunar WardenGo ahead, Dan. These all seem, seem fine to me. The one, sort of, that sticks out is, maybe DIP79110, or 7910. Json RPC method describes configurations for current and next fork. Do we… like, can you sort of explain what that… what's going on there? Maybe, Diego, because I don't really understand. It seems to me, my sort of gut instinct is, well, you know, we're the true Ethereum, there should never be a fork, we're never going to have a fork, we will stick to our principles all the way, so there's no need, like, this assumes something that will never happen, but I don't know, I don't know. Like, that's… What, what do you think? 1:16:05Diego López LeónI have to take a look to that one exactly. From what I remember from some experiments I made with the consensus layer and so on, it's something that… it's mostly used by the consensus clients in Ethereum to decide certain things. So, I don't think they are needed in Ethereum Classic, if that's the use case. beyond what you said about if we should or we should not have hard forks, I think the main usage or the main goal for that EIP was for the connection with the consensus layer. 1:16:48Istora MandiriIf I remember correctly, we discussed this briefly on the last call with Cody, and… One of the use cases is signaling, so for clients, It would allow them to… Indicate which fork they will be following. If there was some kind of option or potential chain split. 1:17:10Diego López LeónWell, actually, we already have that, into the P2P protocol. Okay. And the P2P protocol, they have this mechanism, it's called a fork IDs. And it's described quite well in the ACIP, I don't remember… the EIP, I don't remember the name, but It was actually designed when the fork between Ethereum and Ethereum Classic happened, because that was the way for the client to signal which chain they would be going to follow. So, we already have that. At least that mechanism. 1:17:43Lunar WardenWhat is that called? 1:17:44Diego López León4kd, let me check exactly, it's, 4KBE… I… B fork identifier, It's… I think is… Yes, it's, EIP2124. 1:18:10Lunar WardenOkay, yeah. I mean, all of the rest are just sort of, like, they just seem to me, like, sort of… Mostly, like, technical things. like, they all seem okay. This one, this one may be, like, more… this one just sort of assumes that there will be a fork, which is, like, I don't know, that's, like, that's, like, bad language we should try to, because, of course… Like, our contention is, of course, like, Ethereum was the… this is the real Ethereum, this was never forked. 1:18:40Diego López LeónWell, a nicer name for the changes that we are applying is network upgrades. 1:18:45Lunar WardenRight, right, network upgrade, so… Right. 1:18:49Istora MandiriThe nomenclature is quite… Precise, where we have, like, chain split and forking and upgrades, And in this case, the… This is more for internal, as opposed to anything that… Is it… this is gonna be, like… A hard fork upgrade? No, right? It's just adding an RPC method to the client, so it's not going to change the protocol itself. 1:19:21Diego López LeónYeah, no, no, it doesn't change the protocol, no, no, I don't know. 1:19:24Lunar WardenThis would be… this would be like a soft fork that, you know, anyone can add now. Okay. 1:19:33Diego López LeónYes. 1:19:34Istora MandiriThe… 1:19:35Diego López LeónHow about the… 1:19:36Istora MandiriYeah, go ahead. 1:19:37Diego López LeónGo ahead. Oh, okay. So about the ones that I think that should be the fair. mostly by using the argument I said before, that it's meant for… Ethereum use cases more than what we already need. It's about, like, for example, the historical block hashes. I think it's an interesting… Piece of, like, it's an interesting system contract. We already have the blog hash for that. The block hash, it's quite limited. I think it, if I remember correctly, it's, like, 200 and something. blocks that we can, see from the past. The system contract enables you, like, a higher bound, I don't remember. I, I, I think, yeah, it's, 800, something, 8,000-something blocks. But again, this was meant for the withdrawals. So, they needed… They needed to have this info… this… this pre-compile… this information in a pre-compile, because they need to access to this information for the withdrawals from the… from the Beacon chain. So, in that sense, probably that's something that we are not going to need. If eventually there is some use case that needs this, I'm not opposed to adding this. But I think adding this one, for example, will delay some others because of the testing that's needed, because this will be, like, a huge new part of infrastructure that we don't have currently, so it will require, like, a lot of testing, way more than other, like, just EVM changes. That's for, 20… 29.35. Also, like, for example, another one… 1:21:33Lunar WardenCan I ask, how do you feel broadly about EIP1559? 1:21:38Diego López LeónWarmth… 559? 1:21:41Lunar WardenJust gas-based reasons, yeah. 1:21:45Diego López Leónwhat's my… what are my thoughts? . 1:21:47Lunar WardenYo. 1:21:47Diego López LeónI'm not against it, what I don't like is the mechanism of burning the base fees, and I think our better mechanisms for doing that, I think signaling the user, like, giving the user some information about the load of the network, and some better information regarding the fee they have to pay, I think it's… I think it improves the usability of the network, but I don't like the mechanism of burning the fees. 1:22:22Lunar WardenMy, my perspective… I know, I think someone, someone suggested we, we send it directly to miners, but I think in, like, in theory, like, economically, this should be the same thing. Instead of, if you're just sending it all to miners. Instead of burning it. Then, then this is, like. 1:22:42Diego López Leónequivalent. 1:22:43Lunar WardenTo just, like, to just having the, no. 1:22:45Diego López LeónNot exactly. You cannot send the base fee directly to the miner, because the base fee also comes with a mechanism of, finding some equilibrium among the size of the blocks, so… The idea behind the base fee, and this may get… maybe a bit longer, but the idea behind the base fee is that it's a mechanism to fine… 1:23:13Lunar WardenIt's like a. 1:23:13Diego López LeónSpala. 1:23:14Lunar WardenIt's like a price control on the. 1:23:15Diego López LeónYes, it's like you set a target for which size of block you want, and the base fee will adjust, like, will it go up or down, I mean, responding to the load of the network, and… And if you… and if you… Yeah, allow me to finish this idea. So, but the thing is that if you are giving back the base fee to the same miner that mined the current block, you will be incentivizing that miner to bloat the blocks just for them to collect more fees. So that's why you cannot do that. I mean, like, for example, one of the mechanisms that is described in 1120, the ECIP 1120, where Istora and myself are both the co-authors, it's to, like, delay in the fees. So the idea will be to split the base fees from the current block, and you will give it away to the next N miners. So that way, I mean, in the end, you will… You will give the same amount of rewards to every participant of the network, but you will not be incentivizing anyone to bloat the block space. I don't know. 1:24:36Lunar WardenI'm sorry. 1:24:36Diego López Leónclear, but I think it's more clear if you read it. 1:24:40Lunar WardenDon't make sense. 1:24:40Istora MandiriCan I… can I just jump in here with, if I was… if Cody was on the call, this is what he'd say, because he's just been, making this argument in the Discord, so I'd like to put this to Diego. Which is… 1120 is a non-starter because it calls for the mechanic To deposit the funds into a list kept in memory and doesn't account for OMERS. Or I guess uncles? And it says it needs a smart contract. 1:25:07Diego López LeónFuck. Oh, say that again, because it was. 1:25:12Istora MandiriOkay, verbatim. I asked him, why is 11120 a non-starter? And his answer is… Because it calls for the mechanic to deposit the funds into a list kept in memory, and doesn't account for OMERS, It needs a smart contract to work. 1:25:32Diego López LeónNo, not exactly. Well, one of the ideas for… doing this was, actually implementing a system contract for having the pass coin bases, then you will have nothing in memory. It is true in the current specification, it's something that you could assume. The idea with that is that it will not give you, like, for example, my May idea there. would be to use the same number as the limit of block hashes. Like, for example, I don't remember exactly the number, but let's say 256 block hashes that you will need to have in memory. It's quite safe to assume, from the experience I have from the clients, is that they keep The full block. In memory, so they keep all the time. 256… blocks in memory, so it should be quite easy to… to traverse that really short memory that is already allocated for… for the block hashes to distribute to… to minors, but it's… it's true, and there is a better proposal for that, and it's having a system contract that will have the list of the latest, I don't know, whatever number we want of common bases, and that way we will give… we will get reorgs freely. So, yes, it's, that's a really good point, and it will be good also to have, like, a proposal like this one coming with, that criticism. But, yep, yeah, it's a fair point. But yeah, we have this, solved with system contracts, so it's, it's cool. 1:27:19Istora MandiriSorry to interrupt, Luna, but I thought that was a… I'm glad to get that point. 1:27:24Lunar WardenI mean, my, my just sort of thinking with the IP1559 is, It seems most implementations of it slightly change the, and we spoke a little bit about this before the call started, but most implementations either, to some extent, slightly change the economics around how mining works. or, like, the contract between, you know, users and miners. And so it seems like this… even just this small change would, like, open up you know, the possibility of larger changes. My historical sort of understanding of this would be something like. you know, EIP… well, the original intention of EIP1559 was, you know, they needed to switch to… the ETH chain needed to switch to proof of stake, but they need to see, like, if they can get away with, with rugging the miners slowly first. And so they first… they added this 1559 thing. And then… and then they sort of… they… then they switched fully to proof of stake. But that's sort of my perspective. I don't know, it's a little bit, maybe a little bit crazy, but that's sort of, like, how… that's sort of what jumps out at me. 1:28:39Diego López LeónYeah, no, I don't know if that's why they decided to add 1559, but I don't think that changed too much. The… if we are given the base fees to the miners, in a fair mechanism, I think it shouldn't change that much. And, I mean, if we think about the improvements in the usage of the network, that it should come with having this, more… Homogeneous, fees for the user, maybe it will… it could be even better, but… Yeah, I don't think it will be, like, something negative for the mining. For the miners. 1:29:21Istora MandiriI agree, and I think, like, mining is probabilistic anyway, so as long as, like, on average, the miners are getting what they would have done anyway, then to them, it's the same. Maybe it's… Slightly later, in terms of, like, a few blocks in the future, but they get roughly… Well, they're almost the same, probabilistically, what they would be. Anyway, with 120. And, like… If we… if we think about potential other… options. It could be that, we can actually improve the long-term Sustainability of mining by removing that temporary lull, where blocks, if there's no transactions, become unprofitable by smoothing that out. So it might actually make mining more sustainable than less. 1:30:14Lunar WardenWell, I'm… let's… like, it's not just about, like, making changes to the protocol, it's like, how do we come about, like, making… how do we come to the process of, like, making changes? Cause, like, if you're… if you're playing with all these, You know, if you're playing with all these variables, like, what exactly, what exactly remains fixed? like… 1:30:37Istora MandiriYep. And really, it's. 1:30:38Lunar WardenYou know what I mean? Like, if we just start, like, randomly making changes, if we say, you know, we can change a little bit the economic incentives around minors, and maybe we can also do it to users, and then pretty soon, it's like we have, like, a social crisis. Where it's like, you know, what does Ethereum stand for? And it's just like, you know, you're coming up with nonsense like crops or whatever, so… So we have to… we have to, like, like, be… we have to be… think carefully about, like, how exactly we're… we're coming to… To implement all these changes. For, for, for changes, for technical changes, like, you know, pre-compiles for curves or something like that. It's very hard to see how that would be, too political. Or, or much, how there will be contention around that. I did, I did actually want to ask about, 7935, like, the gas limit. So what's the default gas limit now? And we're setting it to 60 million? just what's… 1:31:39Diego López LeónNo, it's… no, it's way lower. I think its default is still 8 million. So, also, yeah, that's… that's one of the other ones that I will defer. It doesn't make sense right now. 1:31:50Istora MandiriWe talked about this on the… we talked about this on the last call as well, and yeah, Cody agreed that we would defer, 7935. So, I think that's what we can agree to get rid of. 1:32:01Lunar WardenSo, it's increasing from 48 to 60? 1:32:05Istora MandiriCurrently, it's, like, 8 million. 1:32:07Lunar WardenOh, yeah. That seems actually, like, quite small, I think that's, Yeah, I'm not the… I'm not used to that. I'm, like, I'm from the… I'm from, like, new, new Ethereum, like, I'm used to 60, so I don't know how people feel about that, but we'll see. 1:32:25Istora MandiriBut there is a related EIP that limits transaction size to, I think, 16 million? So… There is already an upper bound. 1:32:35Diego López LeónYeah, but even that, that, that transaction limit doesn't make sense with our current load size. So, also, I will say that we shall defer that one also. 1:32:49Istora MandiriYep. 1:32:50Lunar WardenI will say, there's a lot of, like, sort of DeFi trading that goes above, like, the 8 million gas limit. But again, I'm not necessarily opposed to either keeping the limit or increasing it. Maybe for conservative reasons, the limit should be kept. 1:33:09Istora MandiriSo, the reason that they are… we're talking now about 7825, which is transaction gas cap limit. And the rationale in that EIP is that… It's like a denial-of-service vector, if people are able to do, like, unlimited gas transactions. Currently, the gas limit is $8 million, so this doesn't really apply Currently, however, miners do have the ability to vote the gas price up. to basically as they please, as far as I understand. So, unless the default in the client is changed. That, like, changing the default value is, in practice how it's changed, but miners have potentially the ability to change it. If I understand correctly. 1:33:55Diego López LeónYeah, and I'm quite sure that the… the miners are aware of this, and every mining pool, they have the… their target already fixed. They are not using the defaults. 1:34:09Istora MandiriOkay. 1:34:11Lunar WardenThey are, or not? 1:34:14Diego López LeónThey are not using the defaults. They said the… day, gas leak. 1:34:19Lunar WardenIf I sent the transaction with, like, they use this $20 million through a smart contract, like, what would, would it work? Would it not? Like… 1:34:27Diego López LeónNope. No, it won't. 1:34:30Lunar WardenEverybody. 1:34:31Diego López LeónNot fit in any block. 1:34:33Lunar WardenWhat limits are the miners setting for themselves, roughly? 1:34:37Diego López LeónBut, but this is… 1:34:38Lunar WardenIs there a maximum that the miners set? Is it the 48 per transaction? 1:34:43Diego López LeónNo, no, no, no, there isn't. No, there isn't. You can fill up the entire block with a single transaction if you find a miner that will take it. 1:34:55Lunar WardenSo, so it's the 48, then? 48? 1:34:57Istora MandiriIt's 8 million, the current gas. 1:34:59Diego López Leónstatement, yeah. 1:35:01Lunar WardenBut the block limit, if you find a miner that'll accept it, then it's… then they can go up to 48, or… am I understanding that? 1:35:08Diego López LeónYes, yes, they could. Yes, they could. I mean, it's not that easy, because they have… there is a… There is, like, a slow curve for the miners to reach, to grow the block size, so it's not that you can have 8 million on one block and 40 million on the next one, but, it's possible. It's theoretical. 1:35:29Istora MandiriYes. But it's not possible for one miner to just say, oh, I'm going to include you. 1:35:34Diego López LeónOh, no. Of course not. 1:35:35Istora MandiriYeah, they kind of… they collectively vote on what the gas limit will be, and it kind of averages out to what everyone signals, so… That you can't have 48 million guests. transactions in Ethereum Classic. 1:35:50Lunar WardenWhen you say $8 million is the limit now, this is just like, this is just like an agreement, between miners, it's not at the protocol level? Or… 1:35:59Diego López LeónYeah. Yeah, the protocol… I mean, the clients only can have a default number. That's the only thing that we can do. But the maximum block size is decided 100% by the miners. And it's… and that's because, I mean, they have. 1:36:21Lunar WardenYou mean transaction size? Transaction size or block size? 1:36:24Diego López Leónsize, block size. Transactions are unlimited so far. I mean, they can… you can have… I mean, unlimited, bounded by the block size. I mean, you can have a single transaction that is taking the entire block size. 1:36:39Lunar WardenOh. 1:36:40Diego López LeónYour limit will be the block size. 1:36:42Lunar WardenAnd so miners can just, like, you say the default is 48? For block site now, miners can just increase that to 60 if they want, or am I… am I misunderstanding? Like, what… 1:36:55Istora MandiriThe default is 8. 1:36:57Diego López LeónYeah. 1:36:58Istora MandiriYes, ma'am. 1:36:59Lunar Warden8 million per block. Yes. Okay. And that is also… 1:37:04Istora MandiriIt could be increased to anything. It could be increased to anything, there's no upper limit. But, in reality, miners would never… Do that, because it, like… Maybe in the far, far future, like, this mechanism exists to allow miners to, like, target… Different hardware requirements and balance out, like, whether the network is able to deal with, like, a high level of gas without having to do a hard fork. So it creates, like, this elastic ability for miners to adjust the network. 1:37:40Diego López LeónYeah, and it was also a protective mechanism, because there were certain attacks where you have the DOS attack, when the miners can decrease the block size and somehow protect the network in those moments of attacks, up until the developers find a solution, or something like that. So it works, yeah, like, it's a benefit for both. 1:38:08Istora MandiriYeah, I think it's quite an elegant solution. There has been some discussion about fixing it, but I think… There's no need to… . 1:38:18Diego López LeónNo. 1:38:19Istora Mandiriremove… no need to remove the optionality at this stage, because maybe in the future, like… This thing about having a transaction gas limit, May not apply in the future, and why would you want to force the network to do another hard fork in the future? 1:38:38Lunar WardenYeah, I don't… I don't fully… I don't fully understand technical details here, but if you're saying there's… there's more optionality now, then… then that's… that sounds good, like, don't need to… No need to change the product, I don't know. Yeah. I don't understand the full details here, I'll have to ask you about that again sometime. 1:38:58Istora MandiriI want to make sure that we're not, We get through all of these, that we mentioned, so… the… we've covered the ones to add, to consider. Hopefully we can get some Input from other, like. People close to the protocol, But I think this makes sense for the added ones. We talked about the 935, not needed. Historical block hashes, not needed. Floor data gas in-call cost increase. We didn't cover this one yet. 1:39:31Diego López LeónYeah, no, for me, it's, it's basically a, for de-incentivizing the usage of call data in favor of using blob transactions. We don't have blob transactions, so we shouldn't de-incentivize the usage of call data yet, at least. 1:39:51Istora MandiriCool. 1:39:53Diego López LeónSo, I will… 1:39:54Istora MandiriThat one can be deferred. Yep, cool. 1:39:56Diego López LeónYes. 1:39:57Istora MandiriRlp… Block size? 1:40:01Diego López LeónYeah, well, this is also coming from, for preventing certain attacks coming from the consensus layer, so we don't have that consensus layer, so we should be… pretty safe in that… I mean, yeah. There should not be a problem with that. 1:40:20Istora MandiriAnd then 7702. 1:40:23Diego López LeónWell, 7702, I would love to have 7702, but it depends on mechanisms set by 1559. If you take a look at the 7702, it doesn't depend directly on 250.59, but if you read it, you will see, like, concepts like max space fee and all of that, and all those concepts are inherited from 1559. So, so far, we will need to defer this up until we decide what to do with 1559. 1:40:58Lunar WardenThe… in theory, in theory, you can have, so this is setting a code for… for an EOA. In theory, there's no need why you need a particular transaction type. I understand, like, historically, like, Ethereum. Ethereum did this with 1559, enabled, but… but is there a reason why you can't… why you can't, why you can't have effectively the same… 1:41:23Diego López LeónNo, no, no, there is not a reason, but we will do that because of compatibility. Basically, because we don't want to have our own transaction type. Because it will be, like, a huge problem for the overall ecosystem. Imagine that you will have, like, a. 1:41:41Lunar WardenRight. 1:41:41Diego López LeónMetaMask, or all that, so yeah, it will not work well for us as a network. But I agree with you, it's not a necessity. In the same thing that, like Blob, for example, those also depend on concepts of base fees. We could have our owns, but no one will use it, because there would be no implementation for our particular transaction type, so… Yeah. 1:42:07Lunar WardenI do, I do like the idea of having an EOA, in theory. Well, let… maybe… maybe let's… let's defer this debate then, but have you, 1:42:16Diego López LeónThanks, man, too. 1:42:17Lunar Wardenexperience, I haven't, I haven't, like, seen many Many accounts that, that are actually, like, using this functionality, like, having an EOA as a contract? But… 1:42:29Diego López LeónYeah. 1:42:30Lunar Wardenthe home. 1:42:30Diego López LeónYeah, there have been some… well, I… if I remember correctly, there are still some wallets that hasn't… have not implemented 7702 because of reasons. I really don't know, I… I agree with you, it's a… for me, it's a great feature. 1:42:46Lunar WardenI'm just saying, from, like, from DeFi, or, like, who's using the chain, like, I don't see many people using EOA account code. 1:42:53Diego López LeónOkay, well, okay, well, well, they should. 1:42:55Lunar WardenCorrect me if I'm wrong, like, do you see, like, do you see people using them in the wild? Like… 1:43:01Diego López LeónYeah, not as much as I would have expected, and I think that also surprises the people that proposed these specifications, that they would have expected to have more usage by far. But it's still there, and I think it's a really good mechanism. Also, it will allow you different, like. Use cases, like… paying the gas for other people, and things like that, so I think it's really interesting. But it's not widely used, I agree. 1:43:35Lunar WardenOkay, so maybe let's, if we can find some way to do it without, 1559, I'd be… I'd be, like, in complete support, or maybe we should defer… defer to the 1559 debate. 1:43:47Diego López LeónYeah, I think we should defer both. 1:43:52Lunar WardenOkay. 1:43:53Istora MandiriYeah, that makes a lot of sense, and yeah, I hope we can work together with all, stakeholders to come up with a spec for the next fork that has this, like, basic upgrade stuff without any of the stuff that's depending on things that can't be done at this point, or just don't make sense for ETC. And it's really… once again, really awesome to have Diego's deep knowledge in order to put the background behind why these EIPs exist, and why they don't really apply to Ethereum Classic. So, yeah, having this, like, knowledge is something that just can't be replaced very easily. And it's awesome to have the skill set on the call to be able to, you know, help us refine this next fork, so… I think we are… we're quite over time, this one. Yes, thanks, thanks, Diego. And thanks… 1:44:42Lunar WardenThank you. 1:44:42Istora Mandirifor joining, everyone. If there's anything final that we'd like to cover before we wrap up, then now is the time to jump in. 1:44:52Lunar WardenNo, thank you. 1:44:54Diego López Leónfor me. 1:44:55Lunar WardenOkay. Let me, let me just say, let's, let's try, let's, let's try to, like, not… not fork. Let's try to, I think the most important thing is let's, let's try to solve this Olympia thing. Let's find a way we can get everyone back on board. 1:45:09Diego López LeónYeah, I agree. 1:45:12Istora MandiriYep. And hopefully we can start discussions again. Cody, if you're listening, please join the next call. It's much better when we have High-level tech conversations with all parties, and if we want to make this thing happen, it's important that we make sure we get as many people involved as possible. So… Thank you to everyone that did, join the call this week, and I have already scheduled the next call. It will be on the 17th of April. Same time, same place. You can find more information on cc.theoremclassic.org. Till next time, thanks for joining, take care, have a good one. 1:45:55Diego López LeónBye-bye, thank you. 1:45:58Istora MandiriThank you, bye-bye. 1:45:59Lunar Wardenrest.

EIP	1121	Notes
7823 Upper bounds for MODEXP inputs	🔴	Should we add? Caps MODEXP inputs at 1024 bytes. Prevents abuse of underspecified upper bounds. Simple, low-risk hardening that complements 7883.
7939 CLZ (Count Leading Zeros) opcode	🔴	Should we add? New opcode for counting leading zeros. Useful for bit manipulation in contracts. Low complexity, no dependencies.
7935 Default gas limit to 60M	🟢	Should we remove? Consensus in call 48 to defer; PR still not submitted. ETC doesn’t need increased block space. Raises risk surface without clear benefit.
2935 Historical block hashes in state	🟢	Should we remove? Writes parent hashes into a system contract every block. Built for stateless clients and beacon-chain bridges — neither exists on ETC’s PoW architecture. Introduces system contract deployment pattern not used elsewhere in ETC.
7623 Floor data gas / calldata cost increase	🟢	Should we remove? Sets minimum gas cost per tx based on calldata size. Designed to push L2s toward blobs — ETC has no blob support and no L2 rollup ecosystem. DoS hardening effect is modest given ETC’s lower block gas limit.
7825 Transaction gas limit cap at 2^24	🟢	Should we remove? Caps single tx at ~16.7M gas to bound worst-case ZK proof time. ETC’s block gas limit (~8M) is already well below this cap, making it redundant. Worth revisiting if gas limit is raised.
7934 RLP block size limit at 10 MiB	🟢	Should we remove? Hard cap on RLP-encoded block size. Includes 2 MiB margin for beacon chain wrapping that doesn’t apply to ETC. Would need re-parameterization if kept. Blocks can’t approach this size at current gas limits.
7702 Set EOA Account Code	🟢	Should we remove? Introduces type 0x04 transactions that use EIP-1559 fee fields. ETC doesn’t support type 0x02 (1559). Highest complexity EIP in the set — needs thorough testing on ETC’s fee model before Mordor deployment.
1153 Transient storage (TSTORE/TLOAD)	🟢	Cancun; implemented in core-geth
5656 MCOPY instruction	🟢	Cancun; implemented in core-geth
6780 SELFDESTRUCT restricted to same tx	🟢	Cancun; implemented in core-geth
2537 BLS12-381 precompiles	🟢	Prague; implemented in core-geth
7883 MODEXP gas cost increase	🟢	Osaka; corrects underpriced math ops
7951 secp256r1 (P-256) signature verification precompile	🟢	Osaka; enables passkey-based wallets
7910 eth_config RPC method	🟢	Returns active fork rules; discussed in calls 46–48
7642 Remove bloom filters from receipts	🔴	Dropped in call 47 via PR #563

Next Fork EIPs & Post-AMA Debrief

Key Points Discussed

Preamble

Today’s Agenda

Introductions

Pull Request Corner

ethereumclassic.org

Agenda

ETC Cooperative Development Update

Next Fork EIPs

Bitmain AMA Debrief

GravityLabs Proposals Review

Last Call Recap

AI Summary

ETC Cooperative Development Updates

CoreGeth Repository Control Discussion

Olympia Controversy and Community Split

Developer Funding Sustainability

Next Hard Fork EIP Specification

EIP-1559 and Fee Market Mechanisms

Gas Limit and Transaction Size Controls

Protocol Ossification Philosophy

Community Reconciliation Strategy

Action items

Full Transcript