Key Points Discussed

• Guest Edilson Osório, founder of OriginalMy, told the project’s origin story: a 2015 tool to replace notary stamps in Brazil, pushback and threats from notaries, and his move to Estonia, from where he still runs the Brazilian business.
• After The DAO fork, OriginalMy rebuilt its signature-collection tool for citizen-proposed bills on a Bitcoin sidechain, then moved to Ethereum Classic when CryptoKitties congestion made Ethereum unreliable. Background: When Ethereum Classic Makes Social Impact Beyond the Currency.
• OriginalMy anchors to three chains: Bitcoin for trust, ETC for scalability and smart contracts, and Decred for cheap Merkle-tree batching. On ETC a single smart contract opens a signing session and closes it once all signatories have signed.
• Its browser plugin for preserving web evidence produces court-ready reports. Edilson said Brazilian judges began accepting them in 2019, creating blockchain jurisprudence, at a fraction of the roughly $400 per page a notary charged.
• Edilson presented Hääl, his secret-voting protocol: identity unlinked from the vote through encrypted notes, homomorphic tallying, multi-party decryption of the result, revoting, and zero-knowledge receipts. It was demonstrated at Brazil’s 2020 municipal elections but not adopted.
• Brolal described Romania’s proof-of-authority election blockchain and asked about validators and digital identity. Edilson argued permissioned validators can be acceptable only if the ledger is publicly auditable, and that identity must be unlinked from the ballot.
• Istora raised building OpenTimestamps-style Merkle anchoring on ETC, including pinning proof-of-stake block headers as a proof-of-work fallback. Edilson agreed it made sense and did not believe anything similar existed on ETC yet.
• Asked why OriginalMy stayed through the 51 percent attacks, Edilson said ETC is “like Wolverine”: its own node preserved the past, its system re-sent orphaned transactions, and the community believes code is law. Brolal invited him to write an article for ethereumclassic.org, and he accepted.

Full AI Summary and Transcript ↓

Guest

This week we welcome Edilson Osório of OriginalMy, a Brazilian e-governance platform built to fight bureaucracy and fraud. OriginalMy uses Ethereum Classic to anchor proofs of identity, digital signatures, and document authenticity, with the aim of making them strong enough to hold up in court.

The project began in 2016 collecting signatures for citizen-proposed bills in Brazil, and moved to Ethereum Classic for its immutability. Its tools include PACWeb for preserving web evidence, Open Prescription for digital medical prescriptions, and Hääl, a protocol for secret voting on public blockchains. Background: When Ethereum Classic Makes Social Impact Beyond the Currency.

Other Topics

As usual, the rest of the call is open for other discussion topics. Agenda to be determined.

Links

• Edilson Osório (eddieoz): Kick, Twitch, YouTube, X, Bluesky, eddieoz.com
• OriginalMy and its secret-voting protocol Hääl
• When Ethereum Classic Makes Social Impact Beyond the Currency
• OpenTimestamps
• Ethereum Classic: Discord, Community Calls on YouTube, @eth_classic on X, cc.ethereumclassic.org

AI Summary

Call 61 was a guest interview with Edilson Osório, founder of OriginalMy, a Brazilian e-governance platform that has anchored documents, signatures, and web evidence to Ethereum Classic for about seven years. Istora, Kevin, and Brolal asked him how the project started and why it ended up on ETC, how it uses Bitcoin, ETC, and Decred side by side, and how its evidence reports came to be accepted in Brazilian courts. The middle of the call covered Hääl, his protocol for secret voting on public blockchains, and a discussion prompted by Brolal on Romania’s blockchain election infrastructure. The last part turned to what customers see, the idea of OpenTimestamps-style anchoring on ETC, why OriginalMy stayed through the 51 percent attacks, and Edilson’s advice to builders.

Welcome and Introductions

Istora opened the call and introduced the participants.

• Details
  • Istora: Welcomed listeners to call 61 on Friday, October 2nd, 2026, with special guest Edilson Osório of OriginalMy
  • Brolal, Kevin, and Edilson said hello. Istora asked Edilson for an introduction to himself, the project, and his relationship with Ethereum Classic
• Conclusion
  • The call was given over to the guest interview

OriginalMy’s Origin Story

Edilson explained how OriginalMy began and how it arrived on Ethereum Classic.

• Details
  • Edilson: Brazil has around 13,000 notaries, and every signature on a contract needed a stamp from the notary where that signer was registered
  • Edilson: He first heard about Bitcoin in 2011 and mined it to understand the infrastructure, his background being infrastructure and cybersecurity. He returned in 2013, drawn by the idea that something digital could not be duplicated or stolen
  • Edilson: In 2014 he saw the University of Nicosia registering graduation certificates on Bitcoin. In early 2015 he built the first version of OriginalMy, focused on copyright because he had been a musician, and launched it mid-year
  • Edilson: A well-known Brazilian digital-law lawyer wrote that OriginalMy was “the Uber of the notaries”. Notaries then followed him to his talks and he began receiving threats. In 2017 a deputy tried to pass a bill to criminalize cryptocurrencies, and his lawyers advised him to leave the country. He now lives in Estonia and manages the Brazilian business from there
  • Edilson: The same lawyer invited him to build a tool for collecting citizens’ signatures on public bills. It won a Google social impact award in 2016 and some Brazilian states adopted the model, replacing signatures collected by hand
  • Edilson: He was building it on Ethereum when The DAO fork happened. Supporters asked how anyone could trust signatures presented to Congress on a chain that had been changed, so he rebuilt the tool on a full Bitcoin sidechain, batching signature authentications to Bitcoin
  • Edilson: When CryptoKitties congested Ethereum and transactions disappeared from the mempool, he took it as a signal to stop relying on Ethereum, integrated Ethereum Classic, and moved everything, including the signature-collection platform, to ETC
• Conclusion
  • OriginalMy came to ETC because of immutability: a chain that could be rewritten could not back legally meaningful signatures

Bitcoin, Decred and Ethereum Classic

Kevin asked about OriginalMy’s multi-chain architecture.

• Details
  • Edilson: OriginalMy uses Bitcoin, Ethereum Classic, and Decred, and has not added others
  • Edilson: He was interested in Decred’s on-chain governance work, since OriginalMy is about e-governance. Decred built a tool based on Peter Todd’s OpenTimestamps
  • Edilson: He won about 30 DCR in a Decred Twitter contest with a skydiving photo, integrated Decred, and used the prize to give the community free document registrations. It runs on his own infrastructure and has worked well
  • Edilson: Bitcoin is used for trust, Ethereum Classic for scalability and smart contracts, and Decred for cheap scaling. Projects doing hundreds of thousands of registrations in days would be too expensive even on ETC, while Decred’s Merkle-tree batching handles them in one registration
  • Edilson: In one case, a Chinese electric power company signing a multi-million dollar contract with a Brazilian company asked for strong KYC and for the contract to be registered on both ETC and Bitcoin
• Conclusion
  • Each chain plays a different role, which gives OriginalMy trust, scale, and redundancy

How OriginalMy Works, From Notaries to Court

Istora asked what exactly OriginalMy stores on chain.

• Details
  • Edilson: Documents are hashed. On Bitcoin the hash goes into an OP_RETURN, on ETC into a smart contract, and on Decred into a Merkle tree whose root is registered every hour
  • Edilson: The first signature version ran entirely on Bitcoin, encoding identification data in funded wallets and combining all parties into a final transaction, which was difficult to manage
  • Edilson: On ETC, one smart contract handles all signatures. Sending a document hash and the signatories opens a session, each signer submits a separate transaction, and the contract closes the session once all signatories have signed
  • Edilson: A browser plugin (PACWeb) preserves web evidence of fake news, defamation, and disinformation, used heavily around Brazilian elections. One click scans the page and generates a legal report, authenticated on more than one blockchain to fix its date
  • Edilson: Judges in Brazil started accepting these reports in 2019, so there is now blockchain jurisprudence in Brazil. Previously a notary viewed the page and wrote a report by hand, at around $400 per page; the plugin is available at any hour and is much cheaper
• Conclusion
  • Hashing plus a shared ETC signing contract underpins OriginalMy’s documents, signatures, and court evidence

Secret Voting With Hääl

Istora asked about the voting work mentioned in Edilson’s earlier interviews.

• Details
  • Edilson: After moving to Estonia he designed a protocol for secret voting on public blockchains, studying Zcash’s encrypted notes and Aztec on Ethereum. A proof of concept is on his GitHub
  • Edilson: A voter opens a session with their identity, and encrypted notes then unlink that identity from the vote. Votes are recorded on a smart contract using homomorphic encryption, and the final result is decrypted only when multiple parties sign together
  • Edilson: Only a voter’s last vote counts, so voters can change their vote at any time, which counters coercion and vote buying. A zero-knowledge receipt proves a person voted without revealing how, and voters can choose to open their own vote to check it was recorded and counted
  • Edilson: The design drew on Estonian, Brazilian, and other national models. The protocol is called Hääl, Estonian for “voice”
  • Istora: Found the originalmy-haal repository and said the work was ahead of its time, given how popular zero-knowledge proofs have since become. Edilson said that in 2018 and 2019 it was the very beginning, and the zero-knowledge proof was already verified on chain
  • Edilson: Universities have studied it, it became a master’s thesis, and it is studied at MIT in MBA programs
  • Edilson: In 2020 OriginalMy ran a booth at a polling zone during Brazil’s municipal elections, where voters tried a digital version after voting officially. Officials told him it was better than what IBM and Microsoft had presented, citing the multi-party decryption of results
  • Edilson: It was not adopted for political reasons. The president at the time was pushing to add printers to voting machines, which Edilson called a regression, while his model would have let people vote securely from anywhere
• Conclusion
  • Hääl showed secret ballots on a public chain were technically workable, but government adoption has not followed

Romania’s Blockchain Elections

Brolal brought news on blockchain in Romania’s elections and put three questions to Edilson.

• Details
  • Brolal: Romania has used blockchain in its election infrastructure since 2020, operated by the Special Telecommunications Service, with a permissioned proof-of-authority model where trusted institutions act as validators and election data fingerprints are anchored in the European Blockchain Services Infrastructure. Romania has also introduced biometric electronic ID cards, which he believed were built with Thales
  • Brolal: Do several state institutions as validators decentralize an election chain, or just distribute control among authorities?
  • Edilson: Governments cannot be trusted. Brazil’s proof-of-authority CBDC pilot ran with banks, and if Brazil’s six big banks “have a barbecue” they decide everything on that network. If citizens cannot access and audit the ledger themselves, being a blockchain means nothing. If Vitalik had to persuade miners to change Ethereum after The DAO, a private chain would be easier still to change
  • Istora: Agreed that having a blockchain does not guarantee it is decentralized enough, and noted that ETC continued to exist even though a majority of miners forked, which shows the resilience of public chains
  • Brolal: Who should operate validators: only state institutions, or also universities, NGOs, and observers?
  • Edilson: Universities and observers are important. He has no problem with proof of authority for security, especially as AI accelerates hacks, but the ledger must be public so anyone can keep a copy, count open sessions and votes, and draw conclusions without seeing how anyone voted. A fully open chain such as ETC would be better, though he doubts governments will give up permissioning
  • Brolal: Should biometric identity and election systems ever interact?
  • Edilson: Any identity method can be used, including government ID, as long as identity is unlinked from the voting session. Votes can also pass through a mixer before reaching the chain to prevent enumeration by timing
  • Brolal asked whether combined identity and voting data could enable election prediction. Edilson: Not if identity is unlinked and votes are encrypted, since homomorphic tallying reveals only the final result, so nobody can see who is winning before voting ends
• Conclusion
  • Can a permissioned election chain be trustworthy if its ledger is public and identity is kept apart from the ballot?

What Customers See, and OpenTimestamps

Kevin asked how OriginalMy’s customers relate to the blockchain underneath.

• Details
  • Kevin: OriginalMy is a blockchain product with real-world use, not a token tacked onto something that could run on AWS. Do customers even know it uses blockchain?
  • Edilson: Early on OriginalMy used the word blockchain to attract investors, but never raised money. Brazilian VCs did not understand it, and Estonian investors were not interested in a Brazil-focused market
  • Edilson: After scams and ICOs, OriginalMy removed the term everywhere and now explains the solution: easy, reliable, and verifiable without trusting the company. If OriginalMy disappeared tomorrow, customers could still validate everything
  • Edilson: OriginalMy was the first blockchain company in Brazil. He has taught federal, state, and municipal governments, regulators, the central bank, and universities, still teaches with his wife, and this week gave a class at a university in Ghana
  • Kevin: What would customers lose if blockchains disappeared? Edilson: Bitcoin, ETC, and Decred would all have to disappear together, and in that case blockchain would be people’s smallest problem
  • Istora: Asked about an OpenTimestamps-like Merkle-tree tool on ETC, and whether, as a proof-of-work chain, ETC could pin proof-of-stake block headers as a fallback, especially given the quantum threat to their consensus layers
  • Edilson: It makes sense. Merkle batching keeps costs manageable if ETC’s price and fees rise, and he believed nothing like it existed on ETC yet
  • Edilson, on future ETC integrations: His interest is identity and zero-knowledge proofs. Verifying zero-knowledge proofs (he mentioned STARKs) and bringing secure digital identity to ETC would help OriginalMy and other projects
  • Edilson: He has been away from the community for a couple of years, since the fight over Charles Hoskinson’s treasury proposal, when his work with OriginalMy was consuming his time
  • Istora: A current proposal would bring newer cryptographic primitives from Ethereum mainnet to ETC, which should enable use cases such as zero-knowledge proofs and voting protocols
• Conclusion
  • Should ETC have its own OpenTimestamps-style anchoring service, and could it serve as a proof-of-work fallback for other chains?

Like Wolverine: Why OriginalMy Stayed on ETC

Kevin noted that many projects left after the 2019 and 2020 reorg attacks, while OriginalMy stayed for nearly seven years.

• Details
  • Edilson: The ETC community is strong and believes what he believes: code is law and proof of work works. ETC is “like Wolverine”: attacked by every weapon, but resilient. OriginalMy’s contribution is small, but it shows miners that someone believes alongside them
  • Brolal: Invited Edilson to write an article for ethereumclassic.org. Edilson said he was honored and asked to be sent topics
  • Edilson, on why the attacks did not scare him off: OriginalMy runs its own ETC node and keeps copies, so the past was preserved. He watched that at least one miner was still working and that the community was responding, and could have added another chain for future registrations if needed
  • Edilson: Only a small number of authentications, around a hundred, were affected. After Bitcoin’s transaction malleability attacks he had built his system to track the content being registered rather than transaction IDs, and it automatically re-sent transactions orphaned by the reorg
  • Edilson: The attacks did not make his system stronger, but they made Ethereum Classic stronger. Brolal agreed that a system under attack becomes more resilient
  • Edilson, on future plans: He intends to stay on ETC for as long as he can. During the attacks he took part in the discussions, raised Decred as an example when anchoring to other chains was proposed, and recalled RSK’s Sergio Lerner and Charles joining. The worst thing for a chain is a community that does not respond
• Conclusion
  • Edilson attributed his long stay to self-reliance (his own node and copies) and to a community that kept responding

Advice to Builders and Wrap-up

Kevin asked what Edilson would tell developers who think ETC is dead.

• Details
  • Edilson: There is no emperor setting the rules. ETC is decentralized enough, cheap to test on, EVM compatible with smart contracts, and secure enough to build on. People who believe in proof of work should come to ETC
  • Edilson: Cited a reported incident from the previous day involving MetaMask and staking rewards as an example of proof-of-stake risk. In proof of work you must work to prove something; in proof of stake you only need money
  • Edilson: Most people in crypto are there for price, but value matters more and price is a side effect. His daily show covers how technologies work, with no price talk, recommendations, or partnerships with tokens or exchanges
  • Kevin asked him to finish the sentence “We anchor to Ethereum Classic because”. Edilson: It is reliable enough never to undo a transaction, as happened on Ethereum with The DAO, because its people believe code is law and blockchains should be immutable
  • Edilson: He streams every morning (8 a.m. in Brazil, 2 p.m. in Estonia) as eddieoz on Kick, Twitch, and YouTube, and uses the same handle on Twitter and Bluesky. Istora said the links would go in the agenda notes and YouTube description
  • Istora asked whether he plans to attend Devcon in Mumbai. Edilson: He plans to, but needs a sponsor to fund the trip
  • Edilson thanked everyone and offered to help with development or prototyping. Istora said the call had him thinking about OpenTimestamps-style tooling on ETC and that he would be in touch
  • Istora: The next call is in two weeks, time to be confirmed on cc.ethereumclassic.org
• Conclusion
  • Next call in two weeks, time to be confirmed

Action Items

• Edilson: Write an article for ethereumclassic.org; Brolal to send topics
• Istora: Follow up with Edilson about OpenTimestamps-style Merkle anchoring on ETC
• Istora: Add Edilson’s stream and social links (eddieoz, kick.com/eddieoz) to the agenda notes and the YouTube description
• Edilson: Seek a sponsor to attend Devcon in Mumbai
• Istora: Confirm the time of the next call, in two weeks, on cc.ethereumclassic.org

Full Transcript

0:00Welcome and introductions

0:00IstoraHello and welcome to Ethereum Classic Community Call number 61. Today is Friday, October 2nd, 2026. Today we're going to be joined by a special guest. Edilson from OriginalMy for a conversation about this long-running project on Ethereum Classic. And we have with us this week four people on the call. It's myself, Istora. Hello, everyone. You probably know my voice already. We've got Brolal. 0:27lalHello. 0:27IstoraHi, Brolal. Thanks for joining. We've got Kevin. 0:31KevinHow you doing, everybody? 0:33IstoraHey, Kevin. And we have Edilson. Thanks for joining, Edilson. 0:37Edilson OsórioYeah, thank you for the invitation. So hello, everyone.

0:42OriginalMy's origin story

0:42IstoraHey, hey, so I guess to kick things off, for people that have never heard about OriginalMy, maybe you could give us a quick introduction about yourself and your project and your relationship with Ethereum Classic. 0:56Edilson OsórioOkay, well, I started OriginalMy in 2015. We had in Brazil a lot of bureaucracy, red tapes, and notaries, like. 13,000 notaries, where every time you had a contract signed, you should go to another to get a stamp on top of each signature. So if you had a contract with 3 people, and 3 people had their signatures registered in 3 different notaries, you should go to each notary and get a stamp on top of each signature. Then, what happened? I started on Bitcoin in 2011. That was the first time I heard about Bitcoin. I started mining Bitcoin to understand better about the infrastructure. And that's my thing, infrastructure and cybersecurity. Then after some time, well, I stopped working with Bitcoin. I was building another business. And in 2013, I came back to Bitcoin because it was that ramp from $100 to $1200. And then, okay… What's happening now? But I started watching to Bitcoin without the mindset of trying to earn money fast because the infrastructure of the Bitcoin was the gold thing. I was like crazy about it. Like, the first time on the internet that something could not be duplicated. Super secure. Nobody could steal that digital asset from you. And we had a time like MP3 and videos, everything was being distributed on internet. And with Bitcoin, it was impossible. Then… In 2014, I saw the University of Nicosia with their they were registering the graduation certificates on Bitcoin because there was just Bitcoin at that time. And I went crazy, because with my… from cybersecurity aspect. Authenticating something that could not be frauded forever. It could be crazy in a country like Brazil, where we need to go to notaries all the time to get some documents authenticated. Then in the beginning of 2015, I started to develop the first version of OriginalMy. It was very focused in copyright because I was a musician when I was younger. Then copyright made a lot of sense to me. To protect the rights of a composition, musical… everything. Then I built OriginalMy, launched it in the middle of the year. But one month after launching the platform. Some guy wrote about us. He's a very famous lawyer on digital things in Brazil. He was presenting a show on a huge television over there. Then he wrote an article talking about us, saying something like, they are the Uber of… For the notaries. Then the notaries, they went crazy. They started to stalk me in the speeches I was doing, teaching people about blockchain and that kind of thing. At some point I started to receive threats. Then… It was totally crazy, and… At that time, I started to receive threats. In 2017, In Brazil, some deputy was trying to pass a bill about like to criminalize cryptocurrencies in the country. Then talking to my lawyers, they told me it's like I am resuming. I'm summarizing everything. Okay. In the end of the year, then my lawyers told me, okay, you are not raising money because people don't understand about blockchain. But your business is not running very well because notaries, they are stalking you. They are trying to block you. And. You are… you were threatened. And the best thing you have to do is like leave the country. And I left. Now I live in Estonia and very well. I'm managing the things in Brazil from Estonia. And that's my brief story about the thing. Oh, my relation with Ethereum Classic. I forgot that. Sorry. In the middle of the development. I developed a tool in Brazil. We were invited… that lawyer that wrote the article, he became a good friend of mine. Then he invited me to… for a project, to do a project, where people… for collecting signatures. Of people in public bills. From people. Then we built it. We were awarded by Google. It was the Google's social impact in 2016. We earned the thing. And then some states in Brazil adopted the model to collect the signatures, because before our model, the signatures were being collected by hand. Then they used our digital identity and digital signature for signing the thing. But during the time I was developing the tool, The DAO happened. I was developing it on Ethereum. Then, The DAO happened. Well, The DAO happened, Ethereum Classic came. Ethereum, or they didn't… it was not the original Ethereum, the new Ethereum arrived. And then the lawyer, that guy and other people, they told me, okay, but imagine now if we collected the signatures presented in the Senate. And… or the Congress? And the people ask, okay, but, the blockchain was changed. How can we trust no one will change those signatures? Then I needed to rebuild. The first thing I did was to rebuild the tool. I didn't use Ethereum Classic at that time yet. It was just a few months after I built a sidechain on Bitcoin and built the entire tool on top of Bitcoin. Because we didn't know at that time of the fork, we didn't know about how Ethereum Classic could progress or evolve. Then I built everything on Bitcoin, a sidechain, a full sidechain on Bitcoin. And using Bitcoin to authenticate the signatures in batch. Then, we got CryptoKitties. Yeah. When CryptoKitties happened. The mempool of Ethereum was not handling transactions. We sent a transaction in one second. It was not there anymore because it was like… deferring the transaction. I don't know what the hell happened. Well, we know what the hell happened. It was a bug. It could not handle the bunch of transactions that was happening because of CryptoKitties. Then, okay. That signal told me, now you need to stop using Ethereum for everything. Then we moved to integrate Ethereum Classic. Then after integrating Ethereum Classic, I moved everything that was on Ethereum to Ethereum Classic and even the platform for collecting signatures. I moved it to Ethereum Classic also. It was like a month after the DAO that happened. And then, we moved everything. So then I arrived in full to Ethereum Classic.

9:40Bitcoin, Decred and Ethereum Classic

9:40KevinSo that brings me to a question like, so you guys are using multiple blockchains, right? So you went from Bitcoin and then or Ethereum, I should say, and then Bitcoin and then Ethereum Classic. And I believe now you use Decred and some other ones, right? Yeah. 10:00Edilson OsórioYeah, just Decred. I didn't add a new blockchain because I think we have a good… Well, we use Decred because they… well, I met the guys from Decred and I was aware about what they were developing in governance side. And I always thought it is very interesting in the governance side, trying to have what Bitcoin haven't in governance. Then, and that's my thing. My entire tool, my entire OriginalMy is about e-governance. So understanding Decred and what they were trying to achieve in governance on chain was very interesting. Then, they created a tool based on… Open… what, I forgot the name, in Bitcoin. It is, 10:59IstoraTimestamps? 11:00Edilson OsórioOpenTimestamps, developed by Peter Todd. That's the thing. Then they developed something on Decred and okay, I thought it is interesting. Then they did, like, give… It was not a giveaway. They did something in Twitter with, oh, you send the best picture of something talking about Decred, then you can earn maybe, like 30 Decred at a time. And I won. I sent a… I was skydiver. Then I sent a picture of doing skydiving, and I said something about Decred just to say, and I earned the thing. Then I integrated Decred in my platform. And I give away, like, registrations of documents, authentication of documents for free using those Decreds I earned from them. Then all that prize was used, I gave to the community to register and try OriginalMy for free. Then I implemented that kind of thing, like OpenTimestamps, and the thing is working. Until now, it's very, very, very good, very well, working fast. Then, I run in my own infrastructure, so that's good. 12:27KevinSo like, why choose those chains? Like what does one have that others don't or like? Yeah, what does each one do that the other one might not do? Like, do they complement each other for your product, or… Yeah, what's the… I guess, what's the motivation behind the multi-chain architecture, I should say? 12:54Edilson OsórioYeah, Bitcoin because of trust. Ethereum Classic because of scalability. And smart contracts. And Decred because I could scale in a very cheap way for a company. Because paying fees, even like if we had some huge projects running in OriginalMy where they were doing like hundreds of thousands of registrations in days. And the fees, even on Ethereum Classic, it could be very expensive and the project could not run. And then Decred with that kind of batching, a lot of registrations in one registration. Because of the Merkle tree. Then it worked very well for us. So having many blockchains are good because of that. If the company… One example, we had a case where some Chinese company from the field of electric power. Doing… signing a contract with a Brazilian company from the power field also. Then they asked, okay, we need to do a very strong KYC because it was a contract of millions of dollars. And we want… that contract, like, registered in Ethereum Classic and Bitcoin also. Because we need that thing. Okay, no problem at all. You have it. So… we can handle scalability, we can handle trust. And the flexibility we have with Ethereum Classic also.

14:42How OriginalMy works, from notaries to court

14:42IstoraCould you step us through a bit more about the technical side of like how the protocol OriginalMy is working and what exactly you're doing and saving on chain? 14:54Edilson OsórioOkay. For documents, it's pretty easy. Any document is hashed, then the hash goes to the blockchain. And, in case of Bitcoin, it goes straight to OP_RETURN. In case of Ethereum Classic, it goes to a smart contract. And in case of Decred, it goes to a Merkle tree. And each hour, it batches the Merkle tree and the Merkle root is registered on Decred. So the authentication of documents is super easy. The signatures… They are more tricky because the first version was entirely in Bitcoin. The first version was signing documents entirely on Bitcoin, so we were like… But information, identifications, we were encoding in wallets. Like, wallets, and registering the same transaction with all the information, even the… the destiny of the… The other guy who was signing together, the other party signing in one transaction. Then, we were funding the wallets; people signed because they were not handling Bitcoin. They just signed it because their wallets were funded. Then, the final transaction with everything was registered, so it was super tricky to manage all the transactions happening. On Ethereum is easy because we have a smart contract where, when the people want to sign a document, it opens a new session. Like, we send the hash of the document, the identification of the signatories. Then it opens a session for signatures. Then people start to send the signatures. In different transactions. Then the signatures goes to the same smart contract and are bundled, registered together. When all the signatories are met in the smart contract, it closes and said, oh, everything signed that thing. So in Ethereum Classic is super flexible. I have one smart contract that can handle everything, all the signatures in the same place. That's the way I am handling the signatures. And for… we have a tool. For collecting and preserving evidence on the internet. Because of fake news, defamation. Things, disinformation people are disseminating right now. Then, that tool is being used a lot, mainly here in Brazil, you have elections, presidential elections. And the tool is a plugin for the browser. You go to the place where you want to protect or preserve. You click a button. It scans the page, generates a report with all the lawyer talk. That report can be sent to the court to be used in cases, in court cases. Then, the document is authenticated. In blockchain, in more than one blockchain, to preserve the authenticity and the date, the timestamp of the document. Then, judges in Brazil started to accept that thing in 2019. And now we have like jurisprudence on blockchain in Brazil because of that tool. And it's being heavily used by lawyers. And notaries didn't like that, because before you should go to the notary with your notebook. Asked to the notary to open the page. Then he was writing by hand a report saying, "I, notary, saw that information on internet in this time and this website." Then that page was going to the court, and the cost of one page was like $400, something like that. And then we created a tool where people can collect the proofs, the evidence. 7 days a week, 24 hours a day. And then it's much, much cheaper than going to the notary. Then that's the third tool that's very heavily used in Brazil.

19:37Secret voting with Hääl

19:37IstoraWow, that's awesome. And… Did you, am I right in, I was watching some of your previous videos and interviews, and I think you mentioned something about voting. 19:47Edilson OsórioYeah. 19:48IstoraYep. 19:50Edilson OsórioSure. Well, in 20… that's a crazy thing, because I went to Ethereum Classic. cohort in San Francisco with that tool. When I left Brazil and came to Estonia, I was developing a protocol for secret voting in public blockchains. And for that, I was studying how Zcash was working with the encrypted notes, and Aztec on Ethereum, they were doing the same. So I was understanding the protocol. Then I wrote up a proof of concept that's in my GitHub right now, a proof of concept where you could go to open a… a voting session with your identity. Then your identity using encrypted notes could be unlinked. From your vote, then when you cast your vote. The vote is registered using homomorphic encryption. Online on smart contract, then there could be. accounted at the end, and the final result could be decrypted with many signatures together. Then you… with that kind of thing, we could avoid, like, coercion. We could avoid vote buying, buying votes, because even you doing the voting like that, you could change your vote, because just the last vote of you could be accounted. At any time. Oh, another thing. Using zero-knowledge proofs, the protocol creates a receipt of voting so you could prove you voted in that session without revealing your vote. But if you want, you could… How can I say? You could open your vote just yourself. To prove the vote, if you are not happy with the vote. Oh, let me see if the vote was computed, or the vote was not computed. I want to see, I could test the vote, like, you could invite some voters to open their votes to check what they said and what was registered. And you could see if the votes were registered and accounted. So I was like inspired by the Estonian model. The Brazilian model and other countries' models, because I did a huge research about that. And then I wrote the protocol. The protocol is named Hääl. Hääl is "voice" in Estonian. And that's it. You can vote. You can. Prove you are a citizen voting. Your identity is unlinked from your vote. You can cast your vote. You can change your vote if you want. And the result is just showed at the end if the parties, they together sign to open the final result of the election. That's the thing. 23:16IstoraAwesome. I just found your repo on GitHub, OriginalMy slash originalmy-haal. Is that that's the. 23:23Edilson OsórioYeah, that's the thing, that's the one. 23:25IstoraCool. This seems to be quite ahead of its time, and the zero-knowledge proof has become quite popular in other projects, and technology is evolving rapidly. So it's good to see you ahead of the curve. 23:37Edilson OsórioToday we see that kind of thing a lot. But at that time in 2018, in 2019, it was like the very beginning. And one crazy thing, the zero-knowledge proof was proved on-chain already. So, we could prove on-chain, the computation could be proved on-chain. 23:58IstoraInteresting, and do you… Have you seen any, usage of these voting systems in, like, governments, yet? 24:08Edilson OsórioOr is it still… 24:09Istorakind of… Yeah. 24:10Edilson OsórioNo, it was studied. I saw some universities studying that kind of thing. 24:15IstoraOkay. 24:15Edilson OsórioAnd they started off OriginalMy also. It became a thesis, a master thesis, and it is being studied in MIT, in MBAs. But this tool for voting in Brazil, we were invited in 2020 to do a presentation of this model during the elections, municipality elections. They invited us to have a booth. In a session zone, a voting session zone. Then after doing the official voting, they came to our booth to try a digital version of voting. Then we built everything. We showed it to the government. The government were like, okay, we like it. What I presented, they said to me, I was, like, not being humble right now, but they said, your tool is much better than IBM and Microsoft presented to us, because we have even the… co-sign things, multi-signature to decrypt the voting session, the voting results in the end by multiple parties. And no one presented that kind of thing before. But it was a very bad and political decision in my country because the actual president at the time, he was trying to put printers in the voting machines. And we were presenting a way for people where they could vote from their homes, from traveling, any place in the world on a very secure model. We presented it to the government. People liked the model. Then the president, he was trying to instead of trying to test and adopt a new form, a new method for elections, he was trying to put printers. To print something after the person voting. What a regression.

26:25Romania's blockchain elections

26:25lalBut regarding elections… I want to bring a few news regarding blockchain and elections. So for example, Romania is using blockchain technology in its election infrastructure since 2020. So it's been, like, 6 years now. The system is operated by the Special Telecommunications Service. Just to give you some context, and maybe then I can ask you a few questions, if you don't mind. 27:03Edilson OsórioSure, sure. 27:04IstoraOh. 27:05lalRight, so it is operated by Secret Service, the new architecture uses permissioned proof of authority model with trusted institutions acting as validators. Election data fingerprints have been anchored in the European blockchain service infrastructure. So, for example, the European elections were also on this technology? Separately, Romania has introduced biometric electronic ID cards. Creating a broader digital identity infrastructure. So, I believe the project was done with Thales. If I'm not mistaken… I know for sure, actually. Together, these developments raised questions about trust. The centralization, and how the public digital systems should be governed, right? So… Just to give you, like, these pieces of context. Now, one of the questions is… Does using several trusted state institutions as validators generally decentralize the election blockchain, or does it simply distribute control among government authorities? 28:41Edilson OsórioOkay. Let me go straight to the point. We can't trust governments. Because they are… They are the same crew. I don't know. That's like in Brazil. In Brazil, they tried to create a CBDC over there with Something like that, a decentralized network? A proof of authority with banks. But, okay, we have 6 big banks in Brazil; if they have a barbecue, they decide everything that can happen in that network, that blockchain. So. Okay, I understand the point of… Having validators, it's important to have validators, but if you, as a citizen. can't have access to the media, to the ledger, to the blockchain, to audit everything by yourself. It means nothing. That's my view. So using a public blockchain could be helpful. Using a private permissioned blockchain, it doesn't work because it acts like a regular network because they can change the things. Work together to change the chain. In the case of the DAO, Vitalik needed to talk to the miners. And okay, Ethereum had like a few miners at the time, but. He needed to talk to the miners to change the thing, and they changed it. Now imagine on a private and permissioned blockchain. Seems to be much easier. When we are talking about government, if you don't have access to the ledger where the things are being written. Well, it's… being a blockchain doesn't mean nothing, in my view. That's the thing. I don't know if I answered that, that's the thing. 30:46IstoraThat was a great answer. And I think you pointed out something that a lot of people don't get about blockchains, I guess. And it is that, yeah, having a blockchain does not guarantee that it's decentralized enough. And if there's, as you say, just a barbecue of people controlling everything, then they will… Have the ability to rewrite history. And I think in the case of Ethereum, even though a majority of miners did fork. Ethereum Classic still existed anyway. So that version of reality, the true version, I guess, without that fork still continued anyway. And that does prove the resilience of these public blockchains by continuing to exist. 31:28lalAnd this leads me to the second question. Thank you for your answer, of course. My second question is, who should be allowed to operate validator nodes in election blockchain? Only state institutions, or also universities, NGOs, observers, or independent organizations? 31:54Edilson OsórioYeah, most of them, like universities, very important, observers, very important, the access should be public, at least. You could have validators. Well, we will decide some validators, even for the security aspect. I have no problem with proof of authority. I have no problem with that. But if we have enough validators, but the ledger is public. For universities, for observers, for citizens, to watch what is happening over there, and registering, and having a copy of the thing, even for backup, to account the thing after. Then it could work. The problem is, a private and permissioned blockchain. Being permissioned is not a problem if the blockchain layer is public, in my view. Because of security, we understand security is a huge concern. One example is what's happening right now with AI. And… Bridges and gateways. And many of the blockchains are very old. Trustful projects in the market of open source and trustful projects in the market in Bitcoin space. Core Lightning was hacked right now, many exchanges. So because of AI, the hacks are accelerating. So, I understand for the security aspects being proof of authority. You can choose who will put the hands on the blockchain. But the visibility of the blockchain should not be forbidden. That's the point, because then you protect the blockchain and like the election, you protect the election because just the validators can do something. But everyone can see the number of open sessions for voting. The number of votes, votes being registered. You can do the accounting of how many votes and how many open sessions are. Then you can take some conclusions on that thing. Without seeing the votes, without seeing the secrecy of the votes, compromising that side. So, that's the thing, it should be public. I have no problem with being, in that case, of a government or a company election, being proof of authority. Better if it was made on totally open blockchain like Ethereum Classic because of smart contracts. That's the point. Better if it's public, and not permissioned. But being permissioned, because governments will never… I don't think governments doing something without being permissioned. I really don't believe they will. They want to have control in something. But for security, I… I can handle the permission outside, but the private side I can't. 35:08lalOkay, thank you. And my last question… So. As Romania develops both biometric digital identity and blockchain-based election infrastructure. Should these systems ever interact, or should identity and election verification remain completely separate? 35:35Edilson OsórioYeah. The problem is how they are handling the identity, where the people open the voting session and then cast the vote. If they are linked somehow, then it's a problem. So, my proposal, and it's very possible to do using encrypted notes, is unlink. Unlink the identity of the person, then you can have any method for identifying the people. You can use, I don't know, Google login. You can use any method of authentication, even the government identity. It's not a problem. So, you have the identity, session. Then the identity of the person is unlinked. But the session still is open and the person can securely cast the vote. Without risks of being identified. Because people could try to enumerate. The votes and the time the people are voting, and the vote could even go to a mixer. Also, you can use, like, a VPN. They are using a kind of mixer. It could be used between. So you have the unlinking the identity and the voting session. Then after casting the vote to avoid the timestamping enumeration. You could pass the votes through a mixer, then they go to the blockchain. Then you solve all the things, and you can't even try to enumerate the thing. The vote… it's a problem if they are linked. I don't know how Romania is doing, but if they unlink, then okay, it works. 37:23lalBut do you believe that the data obtained from, you know, checking everyone's ID, and also checking the voting process at the same time, being able to see this information… Do you think they could do election prediction, or they can sort information in a way that may, I don't know, provide additional data or additional information about the way people vote? 38:04Edilson OsórioNo, I think it's kind of impossible because if the identity is unlinked, the person can cast the vote at the same time or days after. Doesn't matter because what's matter is the session was open. One person is able to vote. So you can avoid that kind of classification and linking the person. Then about the vote, if the vote is cast like you cast the vote in an encrypted vote, so it arrives on a blockchain in a way no one can recover the thing. Even the blockchain, no one can recover the vote. Then, first. No one knows who cast the vote. Who is the owner of that vote? You can't know. Then we find. Zero-knowledge proof receipt. The person can just prove they voted without showing. In who they voted. But the zero-knowledge proof carries also who the person voted. So they prove the time, the session, the vote without showing anything. So, if they… they need to compute or calculate the votes after they can't know. You can prove the person vote without showing anything about that vote. And just the result is calculated at the end. With, using, homomorphic encryption. Because that's the thing, that's the best encryption for… you can… the homomorphic encryption is crazy, because you can do calculations with encrypted information. So, you don't sum, like, 2 plus 2. You… it's possible to sum an encrypted version of these two. The encrypted version of the other two. Then you have an encrypted result and just the result is unencrypted at the end with multiple keys. So, it's impossible to guess who is winning before the election ending, because people could be influenced by the… The information, the early information about who is winning, so it's impossible to have that kind of thing. So I really tried to cover every step of an election. Try to protect also the citizen who is voting and the system from bad people trying to get information before or doing something bad with the session. And, so, that's my view. That's my view. 40:56lalThank you, thank you.

40:57What customers see, and OpenTimestamps

40:57KevinYeah, it's really cool that OriginalMy isn't like some token or trading product, like it's a blockchain product that has a real-world use, you know. There's a lot of projects out there that have really no purpose, but they like to convey that they are being used for something. It's usually just a token tacked onto something that could be run on, like, Amazon Web Services or something like that. Like, can you explain to the regular customer, do they even know that you guys are using blockchain technology, or are they just there to get what they were there for, an original notary, to do? 41:48Edilson OsórioYeah, in the very beginning, because, well, we started in 2015 and people didn't know about the thing. Then we used a lot the word blockchain at the time to try to get the attention of investors. Well, everyone did that kind of thing. 42:05KevinYeah. 42:05Edilson OsórioBut yeah, that was very, very normal. We tried to get their attention, but we never raised it. That's crazy because VCs in Brazil, they didn't understand. And here in Estonia, they said, you have no product. We don't understand your product. And because everything in Estonia is very digitized. And then they said, okay, your main market is Brazil. We are not interested there. So we never raised money for doing the thing. But we use the term blockchain, but at some point. Because of the scammers and ICOs and a lot of people doing bad things in name of a blockchain technology. We removed the term from everywhere. So people recognize OriginalMy because we were the first company working on blockchain in Brazil. And I was the first person talking. I taught the federal government, the municipalities, the state government, the regulators, central bank. And all the academies and universities. And me and my wife, even today, we are doing a lot of classes. And now I'm doing classes even in other countries. Like this week, I gave a class on a university in Ghana, now in Africa. And well, I use it a lot, the term blockchain. But that we stopped using, because at some point, people were not, like, people were confused. about, okay, I heard about some token, it's a blockchain too, and oh my god, it's not blockchain, it's just a token, and probably it's not even a cryptocurrency. And I was spending a lot of time to try to explain the fucking blockchain to people. Then at some point we stopped talking about blockchain. 43:55KevinToo much time to explain. 43:57Edilson OsórioToo much time explaining. Yes, then we stop it. And now we are very focused on explaining the solution. For sure, blockchain came to the talk somehow, but we are not focused on telling the technology. We are talking about the solution. How it's easy to use, how it's reliable. People don't need to trust on us. If OriginalMy stops, like we disappear today, tomorrow they can validate all the things they used OriginalMy for. So, we try to do that vision, to show that vision to the people. Not talking about blockchain anymore, because too many bad competition around there. And I am so bad in marketing. I don't do that kind of thing. Right? Like people does, and I can't compete with them. 44:52KevinSo if if blockchains were to disappear tomorrow, what would your customers lose? 44:58Edilson OsórioWell. All the blockchains should disappear together. Bitcoin should disappear. Ethereum Classic should disappear and Decred should disappear together. So that's the thing I have. I think I believe OriginalMy has a strong infrastructure. Because we have some kind of redundancy in other blockchains, not just one. So… Just a nuclear bomb or a meteor coming and probably something. But the blockchain will be like the smaller problem that people will have if that kind of thing happen. 45:39IstoraYeah, we have bigger problems if all of those blockchains go down, I think. 45:42Edilson OsórioYeah, sure. 45:44IstoraI wanted to ask your opinion about the OpenTimestamps protocol, and the idea of maybe having something similar on Ethereum Classic. And creating this Merkle tree for hashing data. Does something exist already on EVM chains for this? And because Ethereum Classic is proof of work. Maybe it would be an interesting idea to explore pinning other proof of stake chain block headers onto Ethereum Classic as a kind of fallback mechanism for extra security. And maybe especially with this quantum threat. for those proof of stake chains on their consensus layer, maybe Ethereum Classic can provide some additional security for other chains by pinning. block headers. 46:33Edilson OsórioMakes super sense. Super sense because for large registrations of information will reduce the taxes. Now the fees you should pay to the chain. That could be expensive if Ethereum Classic goes to the moon, then the fees probably goes together. Then the things start to be, like, expensive to run a company, or having profit on top of… because we need that profit. And then it could be hard. But a very reliable and good way to reduce the costs and scale the amount of registrations is doing Merkle trees of hashes. It makes a lot of sense. But I don't know if there's anything on the Ethereum Classic, I believe not. 47:27IstoraInteresting. Yeah, I think this would be quite a useful tool for a lot of people, just like OpenTimestamps is, and why not have an extra option for that redundancy? 47:38Edilson OsórioSure. 47:40IstoraDo you have any thoughts right now about what the ETC community or other infrastructure providers can do to, like, take advantage of OriginalMy in their applications, or how do you see future integrations in the ETC ecosystem? 48:01Edilson OsórioI, well, I am very interested in the identity space. And zero-knowledge proofs. That's something I studied a lot and I still studying about it. And. Kind of running full validation or formal validation on chain could be very, very helpful for not just OriginalMy, but for other projects arising. So zero-knowledge proofs is a huge, huge field for Ethereum Classic. I don't know about STARKs. That was developed on Polygon, then now on Ethereum, they adopted the STARK. And probably could be very helpful validating that kind of thing on Ethereum Classic also. So, probably one of the most important things that could happen is, in my view, just because of my field, validating zero-knowledge proofs. and bringing digital identities on a very secure way to Ethereum Classic also. And maybe I am not updated enough about what Ethereum Classic has now, because I'm a little far away from the community for a few years, a couple of years. Shame on me, but it's true. 49:28KevinI've been there. 49:29Edilson OsórioAfter those… yeah. After those discussions, when Ethereum Classic had the problem, and then Charles. From Ada, Charles proposed the… 49:44KevinTreasury. 49:44Edilson OsórioThe treasury. Yes. Treasury. It was a huge fight in the community and my life was totally crazy with OriginalMy and things that happens with the company. Then I stopped it. 49:59KevinYou had a lot on your plate. 50:00Edilson OsórioYeah. Then after that, I was not following what was happening on Ethereum Classic. I was just… because I saw some communities were closed at some point. Bob, like, got some distance off the project. And then I stopped following. So right now I really don't know what's new in Ethereum Classic. Well… 50:28IstoraThere's a current proposal for implementing some of the newer crypto primitives that have existed on Ethereum mainnet, and hopefully those will be landing in Ethereum Classic soon, so some of the more exotic and, yeah, updated use cases, including, like, zero-knowledge proofs, will be available very soon, and yeah, I hope we can take advantage of that in. protocols and others. Such as the voting things that you've mentioned. 51:01Edilson OsórioOh, that's super cool.

51:04Like Wolverine: why OriginalMy stayed on ETC

51:04KevinSo still on the topic of ETC, so I mean back in 2019, 2020, this isn't any crazy news, but ETC got hit with a reorg attack. And a lot of projects left. But OriginalMy has stayed for the past… let's see, nearly 7 years. What did you guys see that others missed? 51:28Edilson OsórioWell, I was talking about that with my community today morning. Like, how can I say? I don't know the correct word in English, but the Ethereum Classic community is strong in my view. They are believers in something that I believe. Code is law, proof of work works. And… That's the thing. And I… probably, I don't know, I have the same vision the community of Ethereum Classic has. Because that is the motives… Ethereum Classic is existing today. It's not dead. And today morning, I said, Ethereum Classic is like Wolverine. They tried to destroy Ethereum Classic with all their weapons all the time. Nope, seems… Like in general, I was just kidding, seems no one likes Ethereum Classic, but it's resilient, it is strong, and it's there. Something is special with this network. And probably it's because the community believes. Code is law. Proof of work. Works. That's the thing. That's my vision about that. And that's why OriginalMy is still using Ethereum Classic. I could move. I could have moved to any other blockchain, but Ethereum Classic is good. And OriginalMy has a small contribution, but I know that small contribution show the miners. There is someone who believes together with us in this thing. That's the thing, I believe. 53:14lalIt is very nice what you said and I believe it's true. One thing that I would like to ask you is that if you are willing, we would love to have an article from you on the ethereumclassic.org website. If you have the time and would like to write about Ethereum Classic. Yes. It would be a pleasure to post it on the website. 53:52Edilson OsórioOh, thank you very much. I'm super honored. Just tell me the topics. And I, for sure, I can write. For sure. 54:02lalOkay, okay. 54:04KevinOn the topic of those attacks, like. In one sentence, why didn't those attacks scare you off the chain? And did they affect the OriginalMy product? 54:20Edilson OsórioWell, if the attackers, like, did something to Ethereum Classic, I had my own node and I had my copies. So the past was preserved. So it was not a problem. That's why I was not afraid. And I saw the community discussing the things. And the chain was working with miners. So one thing I was always measuring: oh, there is at least one miner working on Ethereum Classic yet. That's the thing, because it was important. And I have my own node, OriginalMy has its own node on Ethereum Classic. And that's why I was not afraid. If Ethereum Classic disappeared at a time, the past was preserved, and for the future, I just could add another blockchain and start to do… to register the validation to another blockchain. So it was not a case for being afraid. I was watching what was happening. I understand enough about the technology. I was working, like, with dirty hands every day, working and solving issues. So. I had nothing to be afraid of. 55:37KevinSo was there any real disruption with OriginalMy, or no? 55:42Edilson OsórioNo, for OriginalMy, well, when the reorg happened. We had, it was like a hundred, it was a very small amount of authentications, but one thing that saved me was because of Bitcoin. Do you remember in 2014, 2015, when we had the malleability attacks, or, I don't know, it was 2016 to 2017. The malleability attacks on Bitcoin. Where someone could change after casting your transaction, someone could change some bytes of the transaction and, broadcast that thing. So the transaction we were expecting to be mined was never mined, but another. So the transaction happened. But it was not the transaction we were expecting. So, that's the malleability attack. Because of that thing in Bitcoin, I needed to do something in my infrastructure to not rely on transactions, but to rely on the content being registered. So, I had a thing. So, when the reorg happened. I had just a few transactions being dismissed because my own system, for every transaction that was casted and not happened because of a reorg, being orphaned or something like that, the system was smart enough to recast a new transaction. So, it was not a problem to me because of Bitcoin. I built that thing for Bitcoin first, and when it happened in Ethereum Classic, it was not a problem. Someone else. 57:31KevinSay that those attacks made your system stronger? 57:36Edilson OsórioIt didn't made it stronger. But for sure made Ethereum Classic stronger. For sure, Ethereum Classic was much stronger because of the attacks. And 57:49lalIt is true. A system that is getting attacked becomes more resilient. But enough about the past. Maybe tell us about your future plans and if they involve Ethereum Classic. 58:05Edilson OsórioWell, I think I like enough Ethereum Classic to try to stay over there until, like, I can't. That's why I was following the communities. I was aware about the discussions. I was participating in the discussions. Even I brought the Decred case when they were discussing like, oh, let's Let's anchor a transaction in other blockchains, the anchoring. And people from RSK came, and Sergio Lerner came to the discussion also, and Charles came to the discussion also. I was there. So, it was… I saw it was not a huge problem, because my system was covered. And the discussion were happening. I was telling people it's bad what's happening right now, but the community is responding. The worst thing that happens on a blockchain is when the community doesn't respond. The attack. That's the worst thing. And Ethereum Classic was responding, and the community, okay. We had some internal fights in the community. 59:24KevinIt's. 59:24Edilson OsórioSome people, like, abandoned Ethereum Classic, but from my point of view, it was getting stronger with the solutions arriving and people believing and working in the thing. If everyone stopped working, then probably I could go away also. But it was not the case.

59:50Advice to builders and wrap-up

59:50KevinSo what would your advice, or I guess message, be to other developers or other applications who might think ETC is dead, to compel them to actually use ETC the way OriginalMy has used ETC? 1:00:10Edilson OsórioWell, for developers, I think it's a… Well, the community is super good. We don't have an emperor telling the rules of the thing. And. It's decentralized enough. It's not a huge network, but it has its security against another kind of attacks like the reorgs that happened years ago. And it's cheaper enough to test. And, well, it's a good place to develop anything because smart contracts, EVM. Secure enough. For developing things. And proof of work: people who believe in proof of work should come to Ethereum Classic for sure. Because, like what's happening now. MetaMask was hacked, or someone… it was… it happened yesterday. I don't know if you are aware. Someone? Found a way to get the rewards of MetaMask validators. How that fucking shit happened over there. 1:01:24KevinCrazy. 1:01:24Edilson OsórioIt happened because of staking, because then Lido Finance is like, I don't know what happened to them. But MetaMask is not telling anyone what happened, so I think it is… It could be… Dangerous for the network. Even a, oh, proof of stake is there for a long time, it's not that long time. Now, it's different. It's proof of work means you should work to prove something. On a proof of stake, it's just you should have money. Then you can own the thing. If you want. So, I don't really like that model. Then, well… It's another model. People need to understand, we know most of people in the ecosystem, they just want price and pump and dumps. 1:02:22KevinNumber go up. 1:02:23Edilson OsórioAnd numbers go up. But Ethereum Classic is not about it. Well, we want for sure everyone would love to Ethereum Classic going up, but it's not just about that. And in my view, in OriginalMy, I never went to the cryptocurrency space because of prices. Prices are good, but they are not the best thing of the. The everything. So like liking Bitcoin. That's the thing I tell people. I love Bitcoin because what brought the value is different than price. People, most of people are there because of price, not because of value. So Ethereum Classic has value. Bitcoin has value. That's the most important thing to me. The price is a collateral. Is a side effect, is something that is there that happens because The value is good enough. But, people… most of people are there just because of prices. And they need to be educated. That's the thing I'm doing on my show every day. I don't talk about prices. I don't do recommendations. I just show the technologies. I talk about how those things work. And people come to the show asking, oh, and can you tell me if this shitcoin will like go moon. Oh my God, I don't talk about that kind of thing over there. And that's probably my audience is not big enough because I don't do partnership with tokens. I don't do partnership with exchange. I am there because of the value. That's the thing. And Ethereum Classic, in my view, has a lot of value. People are not seeing because they are crazy about prices. 1:04:11KevinSo it sounds like with OriginalMy you guys chose these chains, like Bitcoin and Ethereum Classic, because it fits the principles, same principles, same vision, as OriginalMy. But before we finish and we wrap, I want you to finish this sentence. We anchor to Ethereum Classic because… 1:04:35Edilson OsórioWe anchored on Ethereum Classic because it was reliable enough. So, never… redo, or undo, sorry, undo a transaction. Like… happened in Ethereum because of the DAO. It was not undoing transactions. We know it was like, a management where they redirected the changes in the blockchain to redirect the funds to another smart wallet. But, I know. It will never happen in Ethereum Classic. It never happened in Ethereum Classic. Happened because of that thing, because of people who believe it. The code is law. Blockchain should be immutable. So, I need… OriginalMy needs… Ethereum Classic because we believe Ethereum Classic will never change the blockchain because people lost money on there. 1:05:41IstoraYeah, that's… 1:05:42KevinBefore we wrap, Edilson, is there anything you want to plug, like your stream? 1:05:51Edilson OsórioHow to plug my stream? How? 1:05:54KevinLike, you're, are you streaming on Kick or on Twitch or? 1:05:59Edilson OsórioOh, yeah, yeah. 1:06:00KevinPeople find you. 1:06:02Edilson OsórioYeah, I'm streaming every day morning in Brazil. Here in Estonia, it's 2 p.m. In Brazil, 8 a.m. I don't know other places, but… my channels, all my channels are eddieoz, like the name I put in the Zoom call. A E D D. E, no, my God, I, E, O, Z, yeah, E-D-D-I-E-O-Z, Eddie Oz. So, I am every channel with the same handle. People can find me. I stream on Kick, kick.com/eddieoz, Twitch. YouTube also. So the three places I do the streaming every day. And Twitter also, eddieoz, and other social media networks, Bluesky, eddieoz, and everywhere. Like Eddie also. 1:06:54IstoraThank you. We'll make sure to add all of those links into the agenda notes as well as the YouTube description. So I just have one final question. For you, Eddie, and that's, are you planning to go to Mumbai for DevCon? By any chance. 1:07:13Edilson OsórioYeah, I'm planning. The biggest problem is money. I need to find a sponsor to help me. That's the thing. That's the only thing that is, like, forbidding me to go. I need to find something to finance my travel. That's the only thing. 1:07:31IstoraOkay. Well, let's hope someone's listening and can help you with that because it'd be awesome to have another true believer of ETC at Mumbai joining us as well. 1:07:45Edilson OsórioGood, good, thank you. 1:07:46IstoraI wanted to say thank you very much for joining this call. It's been really interesting and lots of fun topics. So, we are over the hour, and we usually… about now's a good time to wrap up. So unless there's any final questions from people on the call, I think now's a good time to wrap things up. 1:08:06KevinOh, thank you, Edilson. Thank you so much for showing up, and always running on ETC. Very much appreciated. Thank you. 1:08:18Edilson OsórioOh yeah. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me and having the opportunity of telling you what OriginalMy is doing. So it's super cool. The call was super cool. Thank you very much. And guys, if I can help in something, just let me know. I'm available. And, even for, like, I don't know, developing something or trying or prototyping something, just let me know if I can help in something. So, I'm here, I'm available, okay? 1:08:47IstoraYeah, this call has really got my developer mind thinking about potentially doing some OpenTimestamps-style things on ETC. And I think your expertise in this area would be pretty useful. So I'll be in touch after this call to… 1:09:02Edilson OsórioSure, sure. 1:09:02IstoraTalk about potential ideas. 1:09:04Edilson OsórioGreat. 1:09:05IstoraOkay, well, thanks for joining once again, and just to let the listeners know, the next community call is scheduled for 2 weeks from today. We don't have an exact time yet, but keep an eye out on cc.ethereumclassic.org for updates. You can join the Discord, you can like and subscribe on YouTube, that engagement really helps us grow, and you can follow us on eth_classic on Twitter. So… Final round of thanks for joining and see you guys next time. Bye bye. 1:09:38lalBye bye. 1:09:39Edilson OsórioSee you, bye. Thank you.