SHA3 Transition, ETC DAO, Gitcoin, Roadmap 2022

0:02classic community call number 11 on the uh first of february 2022. 0:04edc community calls is a weekly voice chat that happens on the ethereum classic discord server every tuesday usually at 1500 hours utc the content of these calls is decided by the etc community each week anyone can submit questions and topic suggestions about anything related to ethereum classic you can join the etc discord 0:24by visiting ethereumclassic.org discord this chat is held in the community course channel these calls are recorded and uploaded to youtube where you can subscribe like and share before we begin this week uh just a little bit of uh well a bit of an update on what the agenda was originally going to be we were 0:43planning to have a financial journey who i believe is a youtuber uh that talks about etc mostly about trading and that kind of stuff uh but unfortunately there's been a bit of a agenda change uh because of timings and stuff so we will be falling 1:00back on to a kind of just open discussion with some last minute topics that uh we put together also just a reminder that next week we'll be having uh afri who is uh he used to be a ethereum classic hardball coordinator and uh he's 1:19gonna be joining us to discuss um in preparation for the upcoming mystique hard fork some of the stuff that's involved in coordinating hard forks so if you have any questions or would like to bring something up with efforty um yeah please please add your comments to the community course channel and we'll put 1:39those to him but we're basically going to try and dive into some of the pitfalls what things can go wrong what needs to happen and how we can in future ensure that hard forks are coordinated uh maybe in a more decentralized way without relying on any or over-relying on 1:57centralized parties so i guess one of the uh one of the topics on the agenda today and i'm glad you could join us henry because this is kind of related to the shah 3 discussion of which there's been a little bit of progress i guess in terms of where the discussion is going and if you're 2:16on the discord there is a sha-3 specific channel under the ecips i think it's cip1049 where there's been some chatter going on um about how things should move on the shaft 3 front and it seems that this week generally there's 2:35been a couple of voices uh from some some of the more og etc community members uh i believe cody is pretty much against shah three and uh byro is uh of the opinion i guess that there needs to be some kind of counter proposal uh from 2:53the shah three guys in terms of how it should be implemented and some more details in terms of what should be done um to actually get to a transition push r3 so uh i agree with firo i'm i'm open to show 3 going forward uh as a potential 3:11upgrade but i think the devil is in the details and it's really important to get a switch correct so it doesn't cause a chain split and all of the potential downsides are mitigated as much as possible and right now there's there is a proposal for having shot three but it doesn't really go into detail about how that transition is going 3:30to happen so personally i'm looking forward to seeing some some more suggestions and detail about how that might happen henry i don't know if you've been following that but did you have any thoughts on the current state of the discussion we can uh we can't hear you henry i 3:49think henry might be having some push-to-talk related issues but we can just wait a few i think it i i can see uh the mute is going off and on so i think he's trying to unmute himself i'll just wait a couple of minutes for him to come back i'll say comments 4:10on chart three bro i think you brought up an interesting point about uh potentially spending too much time on the topic and it being a sink of resources uh and i think it's gotten to the point where it's just getting back and forth without really making much progress at this point uh yes in in 4:28my opinion seeking this new standard of encryption and make it available to open public networks is something that i don't know it's it's weird in this times because there's 4:48a real fight going on real people are harming themselves and doing exercises and securing information and tracking information and make it available for combat 5:05or other stuff it may um it may had had to be centralized because uh china being the main supplier of components and chips i'm not sure is that worthy yeah 5:24that's a good point and the whole switch to uh there's a lot of unknowns that need to be sort of quantified and the case be made on the shah 3 side that it's actually going to be a net benefit without without major risks and that would include like explaining how the the whole supply chain 5:43thing is is going to be a better situation than what we have with the s hi henry i see you're back but still can't hear you i think i think you may need to configure your push-to-talk settings in the in the voice settings of discord maybe well in the meantime uh i just wanted to make 6:03a quick uh not announcement per se but just an idea that i'm planning to implement uh in the next few weeks i guess uh which is the concept is the etc meme machine and the idea is a twitter account that simply reposts images that have been posted in the memes 6:21channel on discord and systematically calculating the number of shares and uh exposure each image gets and maybe have a different theme for each week and then at the end of the week award some small prize in etc to encourage uh the 6:39propaganda engine to churn out some memes oh hey henry i i heard you can you hear me yes sorry uh just i tried to reconfigure and the stupid thing just didn't work okay so um just to catch up on comments i lost kind of the last few minutes trying 6:57to reconfigure however i'll look at this shaw three set section later this week and we'll make some comments uh we do have some ideas for a very graceful transition that will incorporate both gpus and uh you know the transition of sha-3 i'll i'll update the proposal for that give me 7:16a few days probably again do it over the weekend the idea is very much grin like so the you know just to give you an overview you know have both both gpus and shot three on the on the algorithm and then transition you 7:35know split the proof of work and then transition over time and uh basically i'll split the proof of work and make a long story short the you know it makes the network resilient from any potential nefarious activities because you got two proof of work activities and then beyond that 7:54you've got the ability of the sha-3 side to fall back on gpus and fpgas you know as asics come into into play so it should give you it should give the net worth that will also eliminate any potential asics for the you 8:14know any a6 on the etc side overwhelming uh the network because we know that there's a ton of efas a6 out there if you look at the ramp on the network but i'll go through all that and uh hopefully i'll have that done by the weekend that's awesome and uh yeah i very 8:32much like the idea of a transition i think it has a few benefits um but yeah looking forward to seeing that proposal uh i was wondering if maybe we could set up a dedicated uh sort of side channel discussion uh at a future date to to fully hash this out and have like a uh 8:52yeah just a dedicated discussion for that as opposed to it being on the weekly call so uh if you're up for that then we can sort out a date in the future sure we can do that um just i don't tend to check my emails and stuff until very late at night as you can tell so that's the you know it's the mind responsibly kind of very 9:11batched yeah that sounds good thanks henry looking forward to working more with the community okay great so uh yeah there's the also on the this note um i think there's potential to if if a transition does happen um to somehow do 9:31some like very long-term planning in terms of future transitions for etc because it might be necessary uh at some point in the very far future to transition again or transition uh to sha 4 or whatever that future algorithm is if shah 3 becomes you know there's always the possibility that 9:51there's some vulnerability in sha-3 at some point and eventually all these algorithms reach their end of life anyway so a transition seems inevitable at some point in the future albeit a long time in the future so maybe now is a good time to think about how future transitions could be made easier by designing 10:10some kind of upgrade that takes that into account so it's not just a one-off shar3 transition but some other like uh algorithm generic transition upgrade process that we can reapply at future points yeah that all sounds good um i think the you 10:28probably want a policy in place as well on that to say that you know the transition will take place with some notice to the community unless it's a major vulnerability again i think the grin guys did a good job there in terms of saying you know there has there's a notification period i'll look up 10:46the information and post it on the you know post it as part of the proposal that we make okay that's that's awesome okay so uh let's jump into the next uh sort of mini agenda item that i put together uh and this 11:04is riffing on one of cody's messages uh discussing uh it was related to charlotte three but basically uh he felt there's there's a lot of things that could be worked on and had time spent in terms of focus developer focus for ethereum classic and his list involved uh layer 2 chain link integration 11:24bridges on ramps tuning the gas fees um rebranding and i added versioning into there so it seems to me that there's a good list of uh they're not all sort of protocol upgrades i believe only tuning the gas and maybe rebranding would be in 11:42that category but uh there's definitely a lot of stuff or development to be spent on that's a lot less controversial than char 3. 11:49so i just wanted to write that out there and maybe we could use future calls to start trying to prioritize some of these uh side quests if you like for ethereum classic and try and put together some kind of list of what we want to push for in in the coming years i'm 12:08also kind of intrigued that cody believes that uh a rebrand is a good idea and when i first thought about it i was like yeah it's probably a bad idea but uh i'm open to potential things and there is a good argument i guess that at this point ethereum classic is no longer ethereum really 12:27it's its own sort of thing so maybe maybe there is a good reason to rebrand but at the same time it's quite a big undertaking and might not be essential might actually be negative long long term any thoughts on that this 12:48technology is very very early and mass adoption is just starting we can see an increase in adoption about two thousand and three hundred percent or last year the numbers will show up in a few months probably 13:09showing a trend in that direction so getting ready and having everything in order and a good image could be a new start just like the dao for the treasury or yeah i think image is important um and 13:28uh theorem classic is kind of unknown for most people and maybe a rebrand would be at least uh an opportunity to make it sound less like i guess a lot of people when they hear ethereum classic are going to think oh ethereum classic must be just a ripoff of ethereum and a fork 13:48of ethereum and trying to cash in on ethereum's success and came after ethereum in the same way that like a bitcoin cash to bitcoin um but in fact it's the opposite um but that's not obvious just by the name so i'm not sure how to solve that problem whether it even needs to be solved but it's definitely there but 14:08that being said i i think uh it would be a big effort and not something that is necessarily like fully supported in terms of we had a brief discussion on this last time but uh it seemed like most people were against doing a rebrand at this stage and there's definitely some other less controversial things that people can like 14:27get to get together and work on coming to consensus about a name would be pretty difficult i think i just might uh i just want to add that a move to shatri would make sense for a rebrand yeah that's your point it 14:46would it would definitely make sense to do it in unison with some kind of big upgrade because then there's like a justification for doing it instead of just oh we've decided to rename and there's no actual change yeah exactly i also think it's probably the kind of thing that would be worth uh hiring 15:06some like professional like a marketing firm to do as opposed to it's not really a thing that's easy to open source yes it it needs someone from from this crypto field we we have seen already companies 15:24flourishing uh in different uh aspects of crypto so crypt is not just some value uh it also transforms in jobs and marketing and joining the other markets no in more aspects yeah 15:43for sure and i think that there are some uh marketing teams that dedicate to just crypto projects uh proof of work is one that comes to mind i think they can be pretty expensive although hopefully after the uh the mega pump of 2022 then uh there might be some spare change left in the coffers hey 16:03get ronin are you uh are you speaking today i do have a an agenda item related to the uh edc dao and some updates hey what's going on i'm just waking up actually over here um i haven't had a chance to look at your uh your agenda or anything i just saw that a community call was going on yeah called it's uh this 16:22is a bit of a last-minute agenda um we were supposed to have a guest but that didn't work out so we are falling back into just general chitchat basically and i saw that there was some uh movement on the etc dao discussion right i mean we didn't really discuss it too much 16:41last week but i know that you tried to create a uh git coin account and link that to etc no no i haven't done that yet i i i figured that that was a i i have made a bitcoin account way back in the days so i remember that was a pretty easy uh a 16:59pretty easy thing um what i'd like to do is i think that it's tied to a wallet i can't remember if if treasure or ledger is supported if it is i like to have a clean seat tied to a wallet like that so it's not co-mingled history 17:16with anything and then uh i mean it might be a meta mask and if it's a meta mask obviously it's less secure but um but yeah my thought was uh was yeah to just get a a name set up uh what i did see in get coin was that there was an ethereum classic 17:35name already set up um and so i don't know who has ownership of that name in git coin but we should try to figure that out and see if they'd be willing to uh give that name over for the etc dow if not um we obviously could create a different name 17:54but just the formal name uh would be really nice i imagine it's etc labs because i think that they um they use that at one point uh for as stev was saying on the last call for those bounties back in like what was it 2020 i think was when uh etc got integrated 18:14into get coin yeah that sounds about right so anyway so i think the first question would be to try to figure out who the heck owns the ethereum classic handle i think that that would be wonderful to have as part of that uh just in terms of uh legitimacy um if not you know we can always 18:33get creative we can always work around that but it'd be great to have that handle involved yeah for sure and i think once there is an address that um i i wonder if that address can be a multi-sig um and if not fine but uh it would be good to have an address so that we 18:52can at least start playing around and maybe use that as an opportunity to make sure that the community fund can uh operate and maybe just have like a very tiny amount of etc loaded up in there from the community fund so that we can you know do some test bounties yeah yeah and i think that's that would be a great 19:10thing as to start uh start putting together a list i think you added me in uh in uh that organization on github and so if we can uh maybe get like uh the templates set up for you know submitting a proposal kind of like what we do on the uh um 19:29what we have you know for community engagement on the ethereum classic website if we have that type of system where you know people can submit proposals then they go through a review and get approved into a queue and maybe there's just like a little bulletin board i i don't know what's on your plate 19:47but if that's pretty easy to set up um that'd be great i do have uh ethereum classic domain assets so i can redirect like a formal domain to it um or you know if you want to do ethereum classic dow or something i i bet that that isn't even registered um but anyways 20:06if we can get it to that point so that then we at least have you know a list of the small projects small bounties um and then we can start selecting what we want to put onto git coin and then uh start getting those in motion i mean we really probably i don't know if maybe for this we 20:26we were talking last call we were talking do we need a legal entity for this or not uh based on the tax forms we need a legal entity then uh then we need to talk about that um and so that's really my thoughts on it right now of where it's at yeah cool i think that's a good next step and it's uh not too much effort 20:46to set that up i think just like a basic uh like a no frills gatsby installation similar to the website but how we can like merge in pull requests in terms of uh adding uh proposals and that kind of thing or at least like i'm guessing the system would be we can create 21:05bounties ourselves but also people can submit proposals that are not bounties yeah i would i would have it similar to like the ecip where someone can submit something and then what it ends up doing is once it's approved you it auto-generates that ec cip dot ethereum classic.org you know yeah okay uh 21:24but we don't have to be on the dot org we could or we could be on the dot or you know we have to figure out the domain thing but i would just have it build like that um and exactly what you're saying is it doesn't have to be like flashy right now it can really be the mvp and just be you know you know very bland and generic and essentially a bulletin board of proposals yeah 21:44part of me feels like it's it would be a good idea to separate the name in terms of properties so it's not associated with ethereum classic like yeah yeah i actually think that's good and then yeah that makes sense actually now that i think about it and maybe uh maybe that is better for uh get coins 22:02as well instead of using that handle yep and then there's there's also no risk then of uh another like a repo takeover style thing yeah and i think and i think then it doesn't kind of i we saw that with uh etc labs where uh where they would it was 22:21very confusing if the ethereum classic was a centralized group or not um so i i think you're right now that i i'm thinking a little bit clearer um in the morning uh i i do think that that makes sense to make sure that it's uh really easy to just think that this is not 22:39the network itself paying people yeah for sure and uh any like separation of concerns is is beneficial i think if things go wrong we don't want it to be associated with the main project basically and i i'm guessing like this doesn't matter too much but etc dao just as a name is fine we 22:59have the github so it's pretty good yeah yeah i think that's fine i think i think um maybe we should look at look into the uh the assets for that uh yeah let's snap some domains yeah snap some domains and then probably the uh bitcoin um and then i guess i think git coin is tied 23:17to a github um account so we might want to oppose to like registering our personal accounts or something we might want to make a get coin account um maybe tied to some email that you know is maybe associated with the domain that's with it or something like that and then uh and 23:37then tie the uh the multi-sig address to or i'm sorry the git coin address that's used and i i imagine i think it's a multi or anyways i think that you decide you're either deposit address or something like that i gotta look through it all so i'm just kind of talking out of uh what stev said and what i remember like years ago so but 23:57anyways we should we should have fresh accounts for it we need to make sure that we make fresh accounts and if anyone's listening and trying to jump ahead on making them we'll just just suggest the name or whatever but hopefully that's all available i think i imagine it's you know it's very specific naming so yeah let's uh let's do that straight out of 24:17this call before i publish it to youtube if you're listening on youtube then don't even try the names are already taken okay good so uh i think that's pretty it's actually a very good start and because it's there's no contracts there's no complicated stuff it's basically just organizing in github so it has the potential to solve a lot of those 24:36low-hanging fruit problems in a very like minimal effort way so i think this is we stumble into a pretty good solution for now and if anyone is interested in joining us on the quest of helping manage this new dow project then feel free to jump in um any help is appreciated and you can 24:56either reach out on discord or go into github.com etcdao and uh add an issue if you want to uh contribute yeah um yeah and we should get a list of proposals you know can we do that in a chat or something so that we can start yep 25:15let's do that i think i think we should identify those low-hanging uh those low-hanging things and then uh and then um we can look at uh the requirements for the get the git coin uh submission and maybe that's just kind of the framework of what we draft up for a proposal and and 25:33what i'm curious about is the budgets um that's what we got to figure out is how much do these things cost and we need to you know have some sort of accuracy there when we're applying a price so so we got to think about that of like you know this task cost a thousand dollars you know is that reasonable i don't know yeah 25:53i think it makes sense to start off as low as possible really and work our way up if no one's biting i think maybe um a lot of these things will be picked up just out of interest maybe i i really don't know how get coin is working but if there's rewards on the line then uh i'm sure there's some some developers out there especially if it's an interesting 26:12project and also it would not just be limited to dev stuff right as far as i understand does github let you create boundaries for literally anything like oh post some images on twitter or is it just limited to deaf stuff i'm not sure we can look into that and then i do know that uh yeah there's um there's 26:31all sorts of social engagement uh style marketing where it's you know um post this on you know post this on twitter share it on facebook uh like it or whatever and you can you can set up a um you can set up you know some sort of payment for that in etc or something like 26:50set up a wallet on etc you know to receive it so i guess that would get people used to adjusting metamask to the etc network um there's there's little marketing companies that do that i don't know any off the top of my head but like through through projects through the last couple years i've seen uh the marketing wings on 27:10some of the projects i've done use those outfits so so if you i don't know what you guys talked about before i joined in but um but if there if anyone has any resources on marketing and probably community outreach i think that that would be a great thing to add little etc bounties for to try to build 27:29the community and um and just kind of general awareness um maybe maybe you have them go and look at the uh the the history page you know and re read the history or something like that uh set up a set up uh just i'm trying to think off the top of my head set up a wallet on metamask that you can receive 27:48funds for submit your address to you know to somewhere so that they get added to a list so that they can receive the funds um and then uh and then um you know read the history or do something i i don't know anyways something that's just educate gets education 28:07out there on maybe what ethereum classic is and how it's different than a different than ethereum yeah they they're good ideas in terms of uh they had like little quest things right where people had to do a series of like educational tasks and get small rewards for that yeah 28:24it reminds me of a um coinbase urn have you have you have you ever seen that where it's like they're earning like three dollars and in a token interesting and is there is there like a a quiz that you do at the end yeah yeah i think that they you know it's like a little five minute thing and then they make 28:42three dollars in the coin that they just learned about um and so i remember that started up in i want to say 2018 is when they launched that maybe it was early 2019 uh but i remember that that really uh took people by storm and i think the great thing about that is like maybe to some of us in more developed nations like three dollars 29:00doesn't sound like much uh but to some other people who really either maybe they might be young and they don't even know uh you know they don't have funds or whatever or they're just uh you know from um a less developed country uh three dollars might go a long way so it could be material in some people's perspective 29:20and in other people's perspective it's not really but it's hey you know at least i learned something right i'm getting paid to just sit here and read and learn learn about things awesome yeah i'm just imagining the questions now like uh which of the following is the longest running uninterrupted blockchain ethereum or a theorem classic yeah 29:38and you know you can i think that's a great spot if we do those type of educational campaigns to really highlight uh kind of that there are a material amount of transactions on ethereum classic despite what people think you know and just kind of explain protocol parity how everything built on ethereum can be built 29:58on ethereum classic um how ethereum classes is a little bit slower and less centralized i mean there's just so many things that uh that you can hit on that um hopefully if you're doing those and you're doing that community outreach hopefully we uh we start getting new blood into the discord and we 30:16start you know and they're you know they'll be learning and going through all the stages of learning about the dow hack and and how it all happened because quite frankly i just don't think that many people definitely in the new wave in the new wave these people don't know uh very much about ethereum classic at all 30:35they're they're all tied up and uh fascinated you just by a a type of of uh smart contract which cracks me up the nft stuff it's like man this stuff has been around forever it just cracks me up it's like lightening up in a bottle so hopefully we can get those people to realize that nfts multiple 30:54nfts you know that stuff's been on ethereum the origin ethereum classic the original chain all the way since back in 2015 so yeah this is a really uh awesome um massive value potential thing and is a yeah gonna potentially pay massive dividends like if if it costs three dollars 31:13to incentivize someone to learn about etc and then they become like oh wow this is legit and then start like shelling etc or shall i say contributing to ethereum classic uh that's that's real real value for money and massive low hanging fruit yeah and i think i think oh sorry go ahead russ i've been talking quite a bit the 31:33ac going back and forth a little bit i was thinking um air dropping two projects that are currently on ethereum making a parallel token on etc um but not just one-to-one like with one coin maybe like the mix of coins i don't know i 31:51mean some type of airdrop maybe yeah maybe some type of air drop but you gotta you know measure it right you have to have a good way of reaching the right amount of people yeah i think there i think there's vale value in that if there's value in in the coin um i just want to highlight that like back in uh back on the 2017-2018 run people tried 32:10that a lot and uh they ended up airdropping you like meaningless coins um just the transaction fee you send those coins even back on back then when it was like three dollars wasn't even worth uh uh cash for no man so i what we always call them uh uh in the exchange world was 32:29like crypto barnacles just because like we have an address that's active and you look in and i have a thousand coins of tokens i have no idea what the hell they are if you're gonna if you're gonna airdrop it you know like there is a cost associated 32:49with air dropping and then there's a cost associate associated with the customer claiming the funds because they have to send the transaction and so you got you got to think about that as well um they're they're all laughing i was thinking so my answer to that so my answer to that is is my contract because i can do something on the floor and 33:08then you know with with the dow rising up the value of what i've distributed will also increase and it's also evenly yeah it's it's a small amount that's at the base where everyone gets a small amount that's at the floor so that was that's my thought that's my answer to that but you're you're right about you're right when it comes to other 33:27things though i mean there are ways to do uh i'm not trying to discourage you i was just i was just trying to say that uh there was about a wave of projects so i would just look into uh those waves of air drops back in uh 2018 i think um i mean it's been prevalent for a while that people have done that but there 33:45was a serious wave during that ico boom um that was the way it was instead of doing raises then people are doing air drops and then you claim some and then they hope that people will trade them on on like fork delta and ether delta where the markets back then um or the decentralized markets so you could just 34:03spin up a market with no liquidity and people would start populating trades but it had all these on-chain fees so um what ended up happening was you had a ton of tokens that they thought they would do that strategy but it had they had no intrinsic value on it whereas i think with your project if you build value 34:21for the token um if it has that intrinsic value then that is a model that's perfectly uh tangible and uh and logical so so don't be discouraged by that i was just trying to highlight that uh that has been tried before and a lot of people fail at it but usually because they don't have any tech that they're really 34:41selling it smoke ameers i'm just making conversation too you know it's the weekly call i got to say something but yeah i get your point yep okay um spoke to this to the side i spoke to um i 35:01don't know if you guys know carol carter from saturn no nobody here knows a carol carter from saturn what uh what's going on with saturn kevin just posted last week that uh in the chat that they had some sort of uh they went under and took a bunch of customer funds on etc is that right so um 35:22i know something happened a while back where i think when etc pumped neuron dipped and i guess took yeah nobody heard anything from him and then they shut down the site i had it turned into like an african movie selling website or something kevin mentioned that on a preview yeah yeah it was really bizarre so 35:41what about saturn that you wanted to mention oh um bridges they're talking about bridges to etc and uh you know making some incentive or making something on etc and then making a bridge to bring people over incentivize people to come over and 36:01um i was thinking that's key to whatever i guess the strategy is we're developing because bridge means people can trade their the assets they currently have or not just trade but also use the assets they have on etc for whatever reason i 36:17i kind of like your uh airdrop idea um if it was done in a slightly more uh efficient way and not just like bomb a bunch of useless tokens onto random accounts but have some kind of incentivization almost like a faucet as opposed to an airdrop where people can request 36:35stuff and if they have a certain thing they can sign a message and claim their free nft or whatever yeah i think i mana faucet really sounds nice by request yeah who can who can uh not want free edc right i mean if it's only a tiny amount and the price of each steel 36:53is still pretty low then as long as it can be you could you could use uh ethereum mainnet as a means of civil resistance for the faucet so basically every every wallet with more than point one etc sorry point one ether can sign a message and claim point 37:12not not one etc or something like that so they have enough gas to make one transaction on etc which can then you know kick off some interesting stuff uh we can set up a a discord trivia about etc and maybe put a price there how does that work i've never run that kind 37:32of thing on discord i'm not very familiar with discord in general have you done that before uh no i haven't done that but uh i know this is possible because i have to looked into it and show it that means you basically make a channel and you run a bot with questions and 37:53users can respond is it like a competition and the winner gets surprised yes it's basically what it was during irk times but way better during what time sorry during irk 38:11you know mirk or irk channels oh irc yes man it's been a long time yeah i think it's definitely with a price uh with a price on on a score or something like that yeah i think it may make 38:30make etc more popular right and it forces people to join the discord as well as well yeah lots of great ideas here i think one of the problems we have with these calls is that uh there's no write-up at the end and no like kind of action items so i'm going to try and uh find 38:49someone to transcribe these calls and maybe put together some meeting minutes so we can reflect on them after because there's a lot of good ideas generated here yeah that'd be i think that's a weird idea as meeting minutes and maybe uh you know uh some some sort of to-do list afterwards um of you know uh 39:09goals thing you know to check in like every week hey you know these were the things that we wanted to try to work on has anyone made any progress on that you know yeah i think i can i'll check out uh fiverr see if there's any um uh virtual assistant or something that can help with that great and for the record i secured etcdow.org 39:34on the dot com was taken it was registered back in 2017 um but the.net and org were were easy to grab so that's that's what will be associated with that uh with that repo okay great maybe we can also get some emails set up yeah i just set up uh etcdow.org uh 39:54at proton um just so that we have something and then uh i'm doing i'll do i'm doing the get github right now i'll link an account to that and then uh and then i'll do a git coin so please whoever is listening please don't don't do that uh i got the email i'll have it done in an hour patient worker working 40:13from my bed over here i gotta get out and get some coffee man these early calls henry i saw you uh chiming in there did you want to say something no it's uh i got to reconfigure my get my uh my push to talk i have to set the space bar right now so i'm typing okay 40:32no worries uh it's been a bit of a sort of a short one this week compared to last week which was two and a half hours um but uh if we're targeting out one hour this week uh that leaves us with about 10 minutes so if there's any open discussion the floor is open if anyone wants 40:50to bring up any topics yeah astoria i'd like to um regarding those social assets and stuff like for the dow and such um we should try to think of a way um where we can share those uh so people can use them like related to that project so you know it's not just me or you're holding it so that we can open it up i think 41:10that you can do lastpass vault um where maybe the password isn't shown but at least people can log into that and then if that's not sufficient you know um i'm welcome to uh any ideas but i'm just trying to think off the top of my head of how we uh get it so that just one 41:28person isn't uh running that down and we set it up so you know like if i disappear you know or you know you never know how life goes so um you know it just keeps running after that yeah for sure that sounds good i'll um create a discussion in the in the repo for 41:46that see if uh i think the the idea of a shared vault is pretty good i do wonder if there's any uh i guess it depends on the domain registration registrar that you're using but uh some of them allow multiple accounts and stuff i'm not sure but uh we can look into that offline yeah yeah and for the dns and all that i'm i mean i'm 42:04happy to just transfer it wherever um or wherever that needs to go um if we if we find a good solution for that uh that'd be wonderful um yeah so let's just try to i think it's important to try to start thinking about that now so that we can start building it up from the foundation with that decentralized 42:22uh forward thinking yeah absolutely i mean it's uh it's it's going to start off not really a dow is it it's just going to be i mean it's still technically decentralized it's not very autonomous though but uh maybe one day it will evolve into more than just uh an 42:41off-chain thing but uh if there is at least a multi multi-sig element to it then it could be considered somewhat of a doubt well and i think and i think what we had spoke about was we're going to try every approach right now so just opposed to just going down one lane uh to make sure i mean we'll do low-hanging fruit 43:00but just a try try whatever approach just to try to throw up engagement in it um and then uh get things in motion um you know low-hanging fruit proposals shouldn't be contentious in any sort of way uh they're probably not too capital-intensive um and it just starts getting some 43:19sort of formulized um uh progress happening uh it's just i think it's what we all wish kind of those private teams would would have done um but instead they all had like their own little agendas and private projects and when they're all said and gone it's like outside 43:36of uh the clients and protocol parity um there's just a lot of things that you're like you know what did you guys do over the last four or five years like you guys had tons of money and you guys just mismanaged the helm out of it in terms of trying to help the uh the network protocol itself and building on top of it it 43:56does bring up a good point um and like the the obvious question is what what is the mission of etc dao is the goal to just in a very broad way increase adoption increase the value of the chain in some way or is it eventually to make money because yeah i'm assuming that we're all well 44:14to some extent etc holders so like indirectly by adding value to the chain even if the dow itself doesn't have some profit-making mechanism in it it is in a way benefiting us all by taking part yeah i would i would also um i would think like what we had talked about on that 44:34last call that we had was or at least i had brought up was creating kind of a positive feedback loop so that you're not reliant on third-party funding which has been an attack vector on ethereum classic development is i mean what we're seeing with etc co-op is they're relying on gray-scale 44:52funding and um it might expire right so it's it's just that unknown isn't good in terms of network stability stability and uh longevity and so i think some of what we should be building i like i do appreciate the community outreach because 45:11that's bringing more people in the educational uh goals bringing people in but in in my head i think the highest priority is probably to um if we're if we end up using some of those community funds is making sure that anything that we really spend to use 45:28that community fund will multiply that fun over time so those initial seed donations really uh grow as not only etc grows in value but also the entire stack grows so that then we're funding you know positive feedback protocols 45:47like the amm example that i said where you know 0.1 percent would uh go back to the dow fund of every transaction like a little transaction fee almost like an exchange you know you just make it comparable to that but those funds go back into the dow um so that then they can fund another protocol 46:06that will then have that same transaction fee so now you have two protocols that every transaction is now funneling back into the dow and now you have you know you can start developing the third one and then and all those are on chains so what does that do that adds value to the network that fills up blocks with uh transactions um which generates 46:26the fee market so now miners are now getting more revenue because of filled blocks with uh etc fees um and then what is that trigger that triggers the scaling issues that we all need to address it's the elephant in the room we've seen the scaling problem on ethereum so 46:44you know once that fee market is live and active then all of a sudden we go hey we have a big priority on the network protocol we need to start addressing scaling and this fee structure um because it's not sustainable to have 50 transaction fees we might as well be uh the clearing house right that we all tried to escape from 47:02so then we can launch an l2 and take just a natural progression i think that and and i think a dow would be a great avenue for that um and then having that positive feedback loop uh will make it so that you're we're not having to go and ask grayscale to be donating their 47:20uh their maintenance fees to us and you know you're not having to do that people can certainly do that that would be wonderful but the network will go on for a long time and survive if you build it in that way yeah i think you've totally nailed it there and i i really like that model 47:38especially because um and for me like if there's no dividends that makes it a lot more legally like reasonable and if all the money all the value that's created by the dow that goes back into the dow is then spent on creating new protocols as opposed to like cashing out then i think it's much more 47:57like uh uh legally doable and comfortable yeah and as you were saying i think everyone holds some etc so it ends up being um it ends up being that that is the appreciation of your etc is how the value comes back to you right and as as you mentioned with eventually the scaling 48:15problem will force uh solutions like l2 and this is another perfect example of one of those protocols that can feed back into the dow in terms of fees yeah yeah yeah you know we've we've kind of the evm we've watched how it's progressed and i think it i mean it pretty much went the way that i kind of thought 48:34it would go uh just took awareness and adoption and we started seeing that on eth and then i mean you you saw once people start propping up uh these protocols um you start seeing the migration over to like finance smart chain was one um what i 48:52will highlight though is that type of bridge and this was something that ross was bringing up earlier um the type of bridge that like why binance smart chain actually kind of took off was because binance the exchange had it so where you withdrew you could select the network to binance smartchain 49:10or ethereum and so i just want to emphasize that of this is where as someone that comes from an exchange space where i see a lot of value with working with exchanges is getting ethereum classic into that list of oh you can withdraw your your tether through 49:28ethereum classic at this fee or you can withdraw your tether through ethereum at this much higher fee um and so that'll really kind of bring that type of token adoption over but right now if someone brings a token over to ethereum classic there isn't ave a lending and borrowing protocol there isn't 49:47a uniswap amm market you know and like a lush field of tokens you know there there just isn't that right now um however the natural fee markets out there if we had ethereum classic as a network in exchanges where people could withdraw to and it was much cheaper 50:05uh you would definitely see uh that traffic start to uh evolve and it's my intent over time as this dow kind of develops these protocols and everything to use you know the people that i know in the exchange space and uh and petition for them to uh and request them to um to 50:24add the ethereum classic network embedded into those withdrawal systems um but you know you have to build the the foundation first and that's building um these protocols that we've kind of identified out of the d5 stack that add value uh in the long term and increase usage on chain question 50:44about the bridge thing um is is there a there's two things that come to mind one is um is there already a standard framework that can be easily deployed on etc and then number two what is what is required in terms of centralization in terms of operating the bridge and acting as a custodian 51:01uh yes though so there is a bridge you can go to go to binance and you'll see that they have a page uh that's a bridge and it kind of goes through i think we could we could prop something up like that pretty easy and set up the contracts um if we could build it i think that that's the decentralized approach as well because i think they run on uh dpos 51:20on binance smart chains so i mean the entire chain is centralized in my opinion um but i think that we could probably pull their uh contracts and then we could pull that web interface um i don't know if it would be considered centralized just by hosting the web ui i don't believe that that's the case um and 51:39then as long as we're not uh there's no way for us to pause their funds or stop their funds or touch their funds in any way we don't have the custody of them so just by firing up uh the bridge itself where it just transfers and it locks their old funds and 51:57then does the other thing as long as we don't have the you know what you always see in d5 protocols is the admin key right that that means that you could just drain everyone's funds if you wanted to we can't we can't design it with that in mind so um that that in terms of custody uh that that's 52:16what we need to make sure any any protocol that you see dow fires up has no admin keys ever right this is another like super deep topic that we could get into um on a future call lots of different uh questions come to mind and different types of bridges and who's bridging to who 52:35and i i definitely see a benefit potentially of uh especially after the merge where you're gonna want to have some smart contract layer to potentially transfer erc20 tokens that is um based on proof of work so why not use the theorem classic yeah and i would say uh so i've always just thought of this in 52:54terms of the exchange world and where you see the most volume and i think that the tether token is the highest value of a token to bridge over so if you did usdt and that's because of its transactions and because of its um uh uh sorry uh it's volume of transactions 53:14that's why and then uh if you bridge that over then on an amm uh you would be able to fire up a market that was you etc to usd usdt to tether so ethereum classic to tether if you have that market on um our 53:33amm that has a 0.1 fee that goes to the etc dao so has that positive feedback loop in what you'll see is naturally just by having that one market uh every time etc price moves uh to the us dollar on any exchange you'll see high frequency trading arbitrage 53:52spots which already exist on ethereum so it's very easy for them to adjust their code and run it on ethereum classic um you will see that volume automated botted volume which means that it works in the markets up and down it's there every day um that volume will exist 54:11to um uh uh to keep that price and parity the etc to usd price and parity and so i would focus on that um that is how you really build up any sort of exchange is creating those arbitrage opportunities um and keeping uh our 54:30amm market uh in parity on price parity with the centralized exchanges and that is kind of the foundational volume for a network so i hope that makes sense uh i i realized like i can ramble but um just as someone that comes from the exchange space that is foundationally how you jump 54:50start volume and this type of trading um so that would be what i consider highest of priority if we're gonna spend some big bucks um would be amm and abridge with tether you do those two things and then the community can fund that etc usdt pool to 55:09earn the amm fees for being a liquidity provider now all of a sudden you've added a use case to have an etc um and you'll see a bunch of etc get locked up and that's how you prevent miners from selling off and trying to recoup their prices uh every single day because they start locking up the etc they earned 55:28into these interest-bearing assets and they'll speculate for a longer time now you've locked up supply the selling pressure goes down price goes up on etc uh just natural market forces yeah really good vision um let's do it i i was wondering though why would you would it not make sense to have tether natively issued 55:48on etc as opposed to bridging it from some other less secure chain could it be possible to petition the tether guys to deploy on etc directly i mean you certainly could do that and and or you could have them have a bridge but my my uh why i think of i think of it in terms of you 56:05don't actually even need them to uh to you know you don't need them you don't have to go through that political process and petitioning process to do it if you just do a peg bridge where you're essentially locking up the tether on on the ethereum side and it's moving over to this side and that's what we've seen with 56:25uh binance smart chain so they they have a bep uh version of usdt and uh i believe that's the case uh forgive me if i'm wrong on that but that was that's what i bought i believe they have and um and we see people uh use it all the time and so um whereas 56:44you know like to ask them to issue because i think how they issue it is they issue like a billion dollars right so um they issue a billion dollars and they send it somewhere and all of a sudden you have the attack vector of now a 51 attack on uh etc sounds really nice because 57:02it really is decentralized and uh you have a billion dollar block right so yeah and we have to we have to be aware that 51 attacks plus decks equals bad stuff like at least normal exchanges and if you add on uh if you add on like flash loans and all that i mean we'll see we'll see the same stuff that we 57:22saw with ethereum the only thing that we have the benefit of is we have the benefit of hindsight and we can build stuff without uh the centralized admin keys which i think that uh it blows my mind that companies like compounds are not under the sec right now um maybe they are they they do work slow um but they've 57:42publicly said they had an admin key so they have custody of everyone's funds in that um but uh but anyways oh and then think about uh that 51 attack oh sorry i just hit my head um think about that 51 attack and uh and where they're issuing a billion dollars of 57:59tether on ethereum classic um and then now you have an incentive to attack well if you remember uh binance sent bitcoin i don't know if you remember this but they sent bitcoin a ton of bitcoin uh or no no no sorry it was like a big hack or something do you remember when cz caught 58:17all that black and he he was like hey you know can i petition miners to reorg the chain bitcoin and and he got all that flak so we just have to be wary of that as well yeah for sure but uh i mean by the time this stuff is already it's probably going to be the case that ethereum 58:35classic is very very difficult 51 attack because it will be the only s chain in the in the game at that point yeah i actually i i really agree with that i i just uh that was just kind of a note for uh your met your note about um should we just petition tether to print on ethereum 58:54classic right off the bat and i i don't think that uh i don't think that our network's secure enough for the level of printing that they do they they usually print like a billion dollars or something like that and so um so i i just don't think that we're there yet but i think in the future uh 59:12you know with that will definitely be the case um because it's it's the same contract same network it's so easy to just migrate that over um but i think how we jump started originally is we don't need to ask permission we can just set up that bridge and start you know what i would do 59:30is i i would just take you know ten thousand dollars uh convert it to tether and then i i'd i hit it on the bridge and then uh and then send it over on to etc and then i'd deposit it into the amm account to along with the etc to uh make funds and you know that's my contribution to jump starting 59:49the pool yeah cool i think it would uh i i'd like to like investigate the current sort of state of bridge technology and how how like trustless it can actually be um but if you want to look at that sorry i'm gonna have to go soon um but if you look at 1:00:08that um i believe that it was proof of authority poa i believe that network set up the first rail bridges and they had uh they had their ex die to um to the eth network and then i believe they built one to the binance network as well so that's a good foundation 1:00:26i think maybe chain safe also did one did a bridge so that might be something to look into and then we see one that's live already on binance smart chain so those would be like the big ones that i would uh research and look through and try to see where the centralized factors are in there 1:00:44and um and try to improve yeah for sure and uh chain safe is already i believe they were expressing interest in building a bridge for etc at one point in the past anyway yeah that's what i remember as well and i have some friends that work at chan safe so i can uh certainly ping ping them and see what's up cool in fact we have aphro next week and maybe 1:01:04we can mention this oh that's right and and he's working at chan safe right correct as far as his github oh perfect yeah so that would be a better avenue let's let's have him uh on his call maybe he can speak to that yep he's joining us next week so uh let's ask him bridge questions all right that sounds good okay i gotta drop off i gotta get my 1:01:23date started so thanks for the call thanks for contributing get always a pleasure see you next week okay so uh again floor's open if anyone has any things to add on that or final uh discussion points that you wanted to bring up hey guys uh i don't have anything to say i 1:01:41just want to say hi and chime in for the community call this week good hearing from everybody thanks for joining us ctc punk good to put a voice to the at the ape all right final call for uh questions or comments and i will wrap up otherwise okay so that concludes this week's call thank 1:01:59you for all those who contributed and for listening and sharing this on youtube if we didn't cover something you'd like to discuss you can always submit your questions and topic suggestions in the community calls channel and we can bring it up in a future talk next week we'll be having afri a hardcore coordinator um to discuss a bunch of topics about hardcore coordinating 1:02:20so we will see you next week for that at the same time in the same place so thanks for coming bye-bye thanks everybody bye

SHA3 Transition, ETC DAO, Gitcoin, Roadmap 2022

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