DAO Hacker Unmasked, Website Launch

0:03hello and welcome to ethereum classic community calls chat that happens on the ethereum classic discord server every tuesday usually at 1500 hours utc the content of these calls is decided by the etc community if you'd like to contribute you can join us on discord at ethereumclassic.org 0:22discord and you'll find us in the community course channel if you'd like to help spread the good word of classic make sure you comment on this video like it subscribe share and hit the notification bell to 0:38etc community call number 14 for the 22nd of february 2022 we got all the twos today so thanks for joining us on this very special day we have a bit of a mixed 0:57agenda today some general recaps of goings-on this week uh yesterday there was an etc core dev call number 22 which was hosted by ronin about uh proposing to reject ecip 1849 and 1:14you you'll be able to find the full recording of that on youtube linked in the show description unfortunately some of the audio was not fully available i think there was some issue with the discord bandwidth or something like that but uh you could get a general idea of what was going on and i thought it was a productive 1:34conversation i wasn't personally at the call but uh i believe we were joined by uh brolaw or brother uh who was on the call what do you think the call brother hello um [Music] the call was uh was 1:54very passionate about etc um about about the esib also alex the author has has joined the call and i think ronin did 2:14did good by by calling a meeting for for this egypt because he has expressed some views about uh about the proposal that it hasn't been updated there there are still 2:33things missing in it and we also had some views about was the past what's the path forward but overall the discussion was very mixed and there 2:50were some ambiguous points yeah it seemed to um whilst there were productive parts there were also some uh i guess less uh uh how can we say i it didn't exactly go without uh people talking over each other at certain points which is never uh 3:10ideal and there were suggestions i guess to use potentially a different forum um other than discord for this kind of conversation some people were mentioning using twitter spaces for example which i've never used before but i believe allows you to uh have a more orderly discussion via like hand raising and that kind of thing so 3:30maybe that's a better option for future technical discussions like that in terms of the of my overall impression i think there were some good takeaways uh namely the most important thing being that uh bob samuel is now championing the ecip so in terms of things 3:48moving forward there's a kind of neutral and trusted community member that will be leading things forward with shah 3 and it seems that he has a fairly reasonable perspective on how things should be done and when things should be done and isn't trying to like rush things forward 4:11that conversation about how things stand technically speaking we know now that the guest client is not perfectly 4:29ready he's not 100 ready for uh for checkup mining and we also know that rushing into this is not ideal even 4:45though alex has proposed a block number for for the switch yeah i think one of the good points that bob raised was that uh in the past it has been a case of like specifying a future block number for example with phoenix hard fork but that just created problems 5:05because the code base wasn't necessarily ready for that block number so it seems like his approach is to make sure that everything's ready technically first and then set a block number afterwards which to me seems more sensible additionally i think um bob is aware and rightfully so about the the 5:24idea of like not trying to uh push this without thinking properly about the transition and how to best avoid a chain split and uh there are some some have the view that the very idea of a chain split is just trying to spread fart or fear uncertainty and doubt but uh i think it's a genuine danger 5:43if this uh this thing is not approached correctly because it's not it's not just your typical hard fork that is contentious it's it's that but on top of that you're splitting the the network hash rate by uh having a new algorithm so it really needs to be done carefully to prevent a permanent chain split and like a 6:02minor revolt of some sort so as we've been discussing these calls and previously and my personal opinion is that it needs to be done in a methodical long-term strategy as opposed to something to be pushed for as like sooner rather than later and uh i guess that from what i listen to the conversation 6:22it seems that bob agrees and trying trying to use this as a means to avoid a flood of extra gpus is not necessarily the best approach yes 6:39you are right he he has also mentioned that regarding the transition switching from one algorithm to another it's very tricky it hasn't been implemented or tested so saying 6:57that we are ready to go it's i i don't think it's real it's uh doable before uh before the merge if uh resources or how should i say this the developers will 7:16want to work on this for the next in the next months and provide the results we we may have something that we can look at but uh till then uh we 7:34need to wait and see see what happens one other thing about the discussion yesterday uh what i didn't like was that we had four core four core developers who 7:51who didn't really get the chance to to speak so that didn't go very well regarding that um i think it's good for to have a call and have a passionate debate about an issue so i 8:10share the almost the opinion with you guys that it was overall it was good but i think that the call was a core developer call that is usually more technical and it had a specific objective so it was an editor an official editor that is in the ecib 8:27system who is who invoked the call specifically to move to to vote or to decide whether to move ecip 1049 to reject it and the that that same editor he he put like his political reason his political reason 8:46was because the the network could split in the future if we if we if we approved that at ecip the the thing is that immediately yesterday in the call he he moved to criticize the ecip on how it was written the 9:06format structural issues and he avoided the reason why he had invoked the call so i think that i was prepared just to argue about whether to move to reject it or not and and not to go over all the other things and and i think that that was not honest on the editor the 9:25person who invoked the call so that's that's my opinion about about the call i think it should have lasted 20 30 minutes it was not about whether safety is good or bad it was it was whether to move it to reject it or not based on what three years had passed and 9:44if that meant that he said he was dead and stale that was it um so i think that in the end it was an editor who used the ecip system to push his personal agenda to reject a change that he doesn't like which i don't think that's 10:02that's good um regarding um the strategy going forward now talking about shot three the change in the shot three personally i i i i think that the etc should eventually move to sha three but i agree with istora that we have to be very careful i 10:22don't agree with that brother that it is not ready it is ready because it is it is technically integrated and tested and all that and from now until block 16 million it can be perfectly ready so i think that's alex meant it's really technically not necessarily in 10:41terms of rough consensus or agreement in the community evidently there's no agreement in the community so that that's where we have to be careful and i agree with the store i thought it was very interesting the the last week's um community community call about hybrid proof of work initially 10:59my thought was that it's better just to move cleanly from one from etc to sha-3 but i was thinking in the last week that maybe because of this overflow of gpu miners and the risk that they could keep the old chain and split maybe 11:17maybe we could maybe we could think about using the hybrid method where we start only with twenty percent say three and eighty percent gpus um and then and then go migrating uh making every once a year say by 20 shot three 11:36from 20 to 40 and then the next year from 40 to 60 to 80 and by the fifth year it's um a hundred percent shot three so you go gradually like green did so i was thinking about that in last in the last week yeah that's uh also my position if if shah 11:553 is the end goal then i think that's the most reasonable way to do it it's uh i guess the analogy is kind of like pulling on a piece of string right you want to you want to eventually get to the end point but if you pull it too hard you're gonna snap it and it'll break in two so it needs to be kind of like wedged in and slowly like ramped up as opposed to like 12:15suddenly jolting the whole network um and there's a few advantages yeah i think so so yeah when i think one when rollout when brother was talking about um it not being ready my impression from the call was that the the main part that's not really ready is the 12:34like uh i guess the technical details about how a transition is going to happen and that includes whether it's a slow migration or like even if it is just a certain switch then how do you deal with the difficulty change and how do you unlike a contract level how how do you program in that kind of stuff so yeah 12:55um there are also some some deficiencies on the on the technical part of the of the ecip i mean uh they should they should be easy to fix but it just hasn't been done there's no for example there's no proper specification of what the proposed algorithm change actually is and that's 13:13that's just something that needs to be done my impression of this of this whole discussion yesterday is that basically like the the co-op the core part that was the decision whether the ecib should be should be rejected or should 13:31continue um that could have been reduced quite a lot i think i think that git warning was quite right to bring bring this issue up because the according to the rules of ecip 1000 the this proposal wasn't moving forward even though there was 13:50a lot of discussion on on this court but the formal process was stalled for a long time and basically it was it was due for for removal except if somebody steps up and um and uh takes charge they takes 14:09charge of this and now we've boxed the stepping up and becoming the champion of the after the proposal and this has happened so this resolves this issue and i would expect him uh to make the necessary updates and and consider any issues that that have been brought 14:28up so this could have been without very quickly um also i think it's it's it's fine that gatorade mentioned a few issues that um that he found that indicated that his ecb really didn't didn't advance like there were no changes and there were issues that needed to be addressed so 14:48all that order was fine i don't think it was it was necessary to go to to talk for for more than half an hour about every little detail that that was wrong we could have been it would have been sufficient to mention of the first three but the three most important ones basically and then it would already be clear 15:07um so that's that can be improved in the future and yeah so but i think i think that that issue is has now been resolved and now we have to see what what worked us and i'll continue the discussion based on that that is very interesting what you said about 15:27the ecip being stale or not because it didn't have any changes or work done um i i the ecip 1000 that sets the rules for the ecip process was written originally the core was written originally by look look dash 15:46of bitcoin for for the vip process then uh way tang used it as a model and in a great extent is a copy of the vip process um for the ecib process and then later 16:03like a couple of years later i um yeah most processes processed it and edited it and i added text also from the eip process from ethereum and we completed it as as it is now now and it has some flaws of course but but i 16:20don't think that the ecip 1000 says just because the document on github has not been changed from for three years then and then it can be moved to reject it i think that's that's a very naive interpretation of the text i think that ecip 16:391049 is the most important issue in ethereum classic it's the most contentious and debated issue in the community from miners to mining pools to core community members investors everybody the core developers everybody is giving their opinion where i 16:59think it has a very significant share here in the discord every day well shot three and every new investor always asked about shot three and what's going on there not only that but technically it has been tested worked on the test nets etc so that's all indication that this ecip 17:171049 is clearly not uh stale or dead or inactive or anything like that so to to see is to purely see the document on github that hasn't been changed for three years i think it's not enough uh of a consideration to consider it uh stale 17:37um so that that that's what i wanted to say yesterday but uh the editor moved directly to something else because i think that it was clear that he was going to lose his argument i think that's a very fair point and yeah it some of it did seem like trying to use the bureaucracy of ecip to have 17:57the process to um to try and achieve a certain goal uh and yeah obviously we've been discussing it for the last uh basically every call the topic of shar3 has come up so far so it's definitely not stale in the the community so um i 18:15would agree that this definition of of staleness especially development progress that's not not we're not even that doesn't have an immediate impact on the on the ecip um 18:36should also be considered but that will be basically a limitation that comes from from the etherp1000 and maybe maybe the hh should for measuring and progress that are not necessary necessarily the bonus that necessarily consist in changing 18:56the ecip and but the thing is that uh that this might it is might be other out of the out of the reach for for forgetfulness as the editor is basically bound by the by the existing rules he can't make up new ones and so i think it's fair 19:14that that report is up already for for reasons of due diligence and well maybe it was he found it convenient for other reasons too but essentially essentially he made the right call and we could resolve the problem i think that's that's the key issue it's much better to to waste the issue and then resolve 19:34it then then say yeah it's probably not only not a real issue so we do nothing and then in three years it's it's still stale and we still still have endless uh fights on on this card and and nothing ever really moves it's always i think it's great that now bob is 19:52taking care of this and the progress can can be made again yeah absolutely regardless of the um intent uh the fact that the call was made and it made progress i think it was a definitely beneficial and we should be thanking for everyone that contributed that you 20:11wanted to jump in there bro just uh just one wanted to say that i agree um with uh maybe not the way he he done it but uh the the way he called it out because anissip 20:28editor should have this right to and uh try to get things going in the in in some direction and making people who are responsible aware 20:49of the troubles that a proposal might have so this right is welcome in my opinion and should be kept cool well as a reminder um that whole conversation is available on the uh the uh youtube channel that uh bro kindly 21:09uploaded so you can find the link in the uh show notes before we move on to the next topic is there any other comment on the uh the call yesterday put together a consensual list for shatri i 21:28see that he is here maybe he wants to talk about it at the last call he didn't have time just taking care of my kids this morning but i do appreciate you thinking about the the tracker um 21:49i don't have uh too much to say about this morning but um if there's any questions or issues with it feel free to dm me and i'll make sure and update it accordingly i want to make sure it's as comprehensive and accurate as possible yeah thanks for putting that together it's it's an awesome initiative and very useful 22:08to to get like a barometer of what the community is thinking on that uh my my suggestion would be to potentially split it up into multiple uh or and against positions because it's uh it's not just like 400 sorry 104.9 that's 22:28in question really because some people should support sha3 but on a long term some people support it pre-merge and some people support it one way or the other and some people just against the whole thing so i think the the simple for against neutral metric is a little bit uh low resolution so it'd be interesting to see some uh 22:48i guess yeah split out into the different positions if possible yeah i totally found that as well through the the journey it was kind of a raiders the lost ark you know kind of historical dig through everything um going 23:07through all of the years of conversation there's a lot of dynamic to it and a lot of i don't know really interesting kind of insight from some really smart people that are no longer here but um you know some points that were brought up that aren't aren't discussed anymore so yeah i definitely think there is room to kind 23:25of expand it kind of maybe a pivot table type of um creation that could that could alternate showing different you could even aggregate it according to your time too yeah that'd be great and i i really like that you were able to link to the source material and the quotes that people 23:45have created at the various points in time that's super useful for uh for the record it will probably continue for many months uh the idea of getting opinions 24:04on this i don't know should should we have a channel dedicated for something like what it is punk did to to have a more clear view just just for this i was wondering if there might be some kind of discord bot that would allow us to 24:23do like straw polls and anyone could make a question and have people vote on it and collate those responses and also potentially comments i know we can do it with emojis but it'll be better if there's some like proper solution to that but i don't know if there's anything out there i 24:41saw something like like a voting system on github that can be implemented not sure how but i can take a look and see if we can have some sort of tool for this yeah 25:00consensus building in decentralized systems is very tricky but i guess we're on the frontier and that's what makes it exciting isn't it yep okay so unless there's anything else on yesterday's 25:19call we can uh go to the next breaking news okay so apparently uh someone's uh unmasked the dow hacker so um basically the reason ethereum classic exists is because of this guy who i'm not gonna name on this call and i 25:37don't know if it's confirmed or not but there's some fairly reputable people claiming they know who he is um i'm sure you can find the link in the show notes if you're more interested but uh it's pretty big news for um ethereum classic in a way because it kind of i guess uh bookends 25:57a certain chapter and a mystery if this is indeed the guy and it also brings up a new question as to what happens to those funds um i believe there's still a good amount of etc uh sitting in a wallet owned by uh this uh potential 26:16hacker and it'll be uh interesting to see what happens to that and if there's a pending case against them and how it's returned and yeah in a way as etc punk is saying in the chat the dow hacker is uh edc's founding father to some extent along with 26:32of course stefan tall the announcement was dropped by laura shin who has a new book uh wrote a forbes article about that it was also corroborated by um alex van der saan who uh is one of the the 26:50guys that was around at the time and is a pretty well respected member of the ethereum community can ask her to join us on a call and maybe share share some points about her 27:09findings that's a very good idea although yeah i mean we can always ask whether we are uh the kind of show slash discussion should be interested in who knows but uh it's definitely worth asking and it would definitely be an interesting conversation alternatively 27:26we could also ask uh afsa who was uh very close to the whole happenings around the dow and stuff so uh he could also shed some light on him but there's there's two things that could happen i guess with or several but uh one of the obvious things is that the funds will eventually 27:47be returned to the to someone most likely the dow token holders who are the rightful owners of the etc ironically the identifying of this dow hacker is further proof that the hard fork on ethereum was completely unnecessary because i mean even without the incentive 28:06of all of that fun still being in earth he still got caught so if only this had been without hard fork it's almost guaranteed they would have been caught within a couple years and that means the hard fork was entirely unnecessary so uh code is law prevails that is a good point because um at the time 28:26in 2016 one of the arguments is okay if the hacker stole money then you should use traditional systems like the legal system the fbi interpol whatever to look for but don't go this long don't change don't change the blockchain so this this in a way confirms 28:46that that argument was right in the long run and also the argument is also confirmed with the bit pin x hack now that they got the couple who who i don't know if they stole the money or they were laundering the money uh so there's many cases where you can catch the bad guys uh on the social layer 29:06and not by um reorganizing the chain manually but i have a question about this so if the hacker was um caught moving the money does does that mean that the hacker doesn't own the 3.6 million in that account anymore or he just moved a little amount of money 29:25and he was caught because of that yeah i believe he moved uh 50 bitcoin so the vast majority is still sitting in the yeah oh my god that's bad luck bad luck or bad opsec or potentially any number of other things maybe he was framed 29:42um who knows right until there's an actual court case we can't really make judgment yeah and i should note that there was also a different article on bloomberg which some some may suggest is more reliable than forbes but they apparently 30:02unmasked a different guy so i don't think it's fully confirmed yet although this uh tweet from alex van der sand is uh pretty convincing for me at least i i don't think he would put his reputation on the line if he wasn't pretty confident and 30:20on the topic of uh arguments about code is law unless we are let me uh tie up this section first if there's anyone that has any other comments on the dow hacker um please uh jump in as 30:38uh as donald just mentioned there was um this idea of cody's law being off chain sorry cody's law is a thing that only exists in the contract layer and off chain traditional law exists and the idea of code is law is not to necessarily get rid of existing laws it's 30:57just an additional jurisdiction a virtual jurisdiction that can exist over and above the geographical legal jurisdictions that exist today and this is one of the arguments that uh i have put forward in the new website that has literally just landed so if you visit ethereumclassic.org you will 31:16now see a new website that uh was released in the last uh hour so please check it out and let me know what you think about that there is a whole new section in there called wise classic which covers uh a bunch of topics which i'm just gonna briefly run down now 31:34in a second new section is called y classic and the idea is um uh for people that are not familiar with the theorem classic it's kind of an introduction to why the classic is a thing and it starts off about talking about code is law and the potential future 31:54that that enables and this whole idea of a new way of essentially unlocking these new virtual jurisdictions where people can interact voluntarily and uh enter into contractual agreements on chain which was the original ethereum vision and we point out that code is law as was mentioned 32:13is something that exists over above these places and it also exists only on chains that follow the idea of build unstoppable applications because if you have stoppable applications you don't really have code is law because it's uh stoppable and then you're just relying on 32:32the old jurisdictions once again so the general concept is that blockchains are only valuable when you have code is law and unfortunately um ethereum classic's younger albeit waiter sister sibling ethereum uh does not respect kohler's law in fact they explicitly 32:50disavowed cody's law when they did the dow hard fork which is also delved into in detail in a section called genesis so the genesis section is pretty in-depth about what happened during the dow and wraps things up with some ideas about a 33:09kind of philosophical problem that ethereum mainnet now sits in in that its main value proposition is as a blockchain should be immutability unstoppability and in fact the ethereum slogan was built on stoppable applications but having stopped one of the first applications that got big it's 33:27kind of in this double bind where its past actions contradict its purported value proposition so ethereum classic is there to fill the void but in order to achieve that ethereum classic needs to maintain this idea of decentralism or decentralization 33:44maximalism and that is the idea that decentralization is achieved as much as possible in all layers of the social political technological stack and that means making sure both the organizational structure as well as the protocol itself is decentralized so that means 34:03you can't have a foundation for example an ethereum classic doesn't just like bitcoin and by not having those centralized points of value it can survive long term because basically if the project relies on a foundation the project can only exist as long as that foundation does and this philosophy can basically be summarized 34:23with the idea of f equals btc equals etc you take the philosophy of bitcoin and the technology of ethereum and you put them together and you get ethereum classic and two of the main examples of this are the sound monetary policy of ethereum sorry 34:41of bitcoin applied to ethereum in the uh fixed emission curve that ethereum classic has such that there is no chance of runaway inflation like there is on uh there are main net which does not have a fixed supply especially in the case of proof of stake transitions 34:58which will incentivize inflation because of various different reasons that i also get into in a section called proof of work so i encourage everyone to take a look at the new website and delve in and if you have any comments or suggestions feel free to reach out make a pull request or just dm me 35:17in the discord sorry when is the new website going to be public or available it is live now oh great feedback 35:37and uh suggestions during the process in terms of next steps for the website um now that we have like this public version um on the horizon we're going to be looking towards a few things one of which is internationalization so we're going to be trying to get all 35:56of the content translated into as many different languages as possible targeting like the most spoken languages first like chinese and spanish but any language of course is like encouraged to submit translations to but we will be setting up a system that makes it super easy to contribute translations 36:15using a third-party translation service called crowdin which is uh it's basically an interface that allows you to easily add translations we're also hoping to be encouraging contributions in the form of videos and adding articles and maybe blog posts by creating 36:35a series of tutorial videos of how to make a pull request onto the website such that it's super easy for third parties to add their youtube videos and new applications and potentially in the future if there's a pool available then we could potentially create 36:53a lottery system for rewarding a certain amount of etc every month to anyone that contributes ideas and can really improve the 37:12image for for edc the site looks great as i said before i'll try to provide a proper feedback and review and see if we can make it uh even better that'll be awesome and 37:32uh yeah if for anyone listening has any suggestions that's how we make the world a better place by uh improving it great thanks everyone for your efforts and updating the website is trying to find uh someone 37:50to help make some videos of the that whole section so each each different section would have its own like video explainer to make it easy to digest for the more visual learners on video sounds good i guess we we just need a voiceover 38:10first yep to sort of explore before we go into open discussion is uh the idea of a conference for edc either this year or next year um as 38:29in a physical real world conference that we can go to and shake hands and you know see each other face to face because it's been a while since one of those has happened especially because of uh recent travel restrictions so um i do wonder if anyone has any ideas of where a good place to host something like that would be um 38:49yeah and uh when maybe this year maybe next year another event it might help atta abroad attendance if it's associated with another blockchain event that that's a great idea i hadn't thought of that but 39:07um story let me let me look at some of the shows coming up towards the end of the year early next year does the group have a preferences to i take it united states or asia's the preference i'm guessing based on some of the names i see on the list easy 39:28then i think uh it's a good option okay um give me let me let me take a look i'll send is there a group i guess i'll just post this in the community calls and you know just say here's some of the shows i found cool thanks for that i i noticed also that 39:47omni edges posted that it'll be a good idea to do a hackathon as well yeah yeah especially if there's a bunch of um other if there's either i don't know would it would it be uh suitable to tag an etc conference onto an ethereum conference 40:07i think that's probably as bob that one he'll have lots of stories to tell you right or maybe it would be uh is is ethereum classic more closely aligned with bitcoin i'm not sure i guess technological wise uh edc is close to ethereum i 40:24think um to target with uh bitcoin miami for example which i think is in june july is a better alignment than to target with ethereum going to be inflammatory if we tag it to uh to ethereum um bitcoin miami donald this year 40:43is april so um it's too early that's too early for for us to get some together so we're probably looking at next year um the other idea story is that we can if you want to do a hackathon um there's a bunch of universities that are maybe interested and uh you know certainly they can contribute 41:02students and stuff to work on a hackathon as well i know that a couple of the universes are dying to get in the blockchain or expand their blockchain presence yeah for sure and uh if there's if there's some kind of bounty involved or actually deploying something to etc maybe it could even be just a port-a-thon 41:21as opposed to a like necessarily because you know a lot of the innovation is already happening on ethereum so to do a ethereum classic specific technology event i don't know if there's anything there's like a a unique thing that you could focus on apart from interoperability stuff but uh just the idea 41:40of getting stuff deployed on serum classic is exciting to me okay i think if we pickle okay so we can do it a couple ways right we can try and tailor target some universities and whatnot or we can pick a location and then target the university right or it could be uh for the hackathon it could be a virtual one right 42:00true true i i guess i was just thinking of um in presence since we talked about uh conference getting together yes it's much better to do it like that anyway uh spent too much time online yup agreed alliance 42:20would would be definitely more amicable in terms of tagging along and probably a lot more interesting yeah i i didn't say it from the the most amicable or non-amicable uh point of view but but because um i 42:39think etc philosophically philosophically is much more aligned with bitcoin [Music] so i thought it was in terms of marketing an image to target to bitcoin i think it's more aligned in that sense yeah i agree i think the um yeah 42:59as you say so we can we could aim to do it in the next bitcoin miami for 2023 because a conference costs a lot of money so we have to get the money from somewhere also i mean there's multiple ways to do a conference i suppose um it 43:18could just be like a satellite event where it's at a local pub or something i don't think it has to be on the same level as uh vancouver for the summit to take place in in europe 43:38it's uh for me for example it's very hard to get a visa or for united states yeah that is a good point and travel we want to make it as accessible as possible both in terms of visas and like entry rules regarding other things in terms 43:58of travel restrictions el salvador that's a good idea on the edge just mentioned if there are any conferences in el salvador that might be a very good option i'm fairly confident they have pretty relaxed entry restrictions how is that in terms of visa situation bro 44:18well i wouldn't go there because it has one of the highest crime rates on the planet bitcoin as legal tender yes 44:35of course etc that we know of that have you know located in certain areas they might help sponsor or you know co-host or or facilitate 44:54in some form or fashion well the dow hackers based in singapore if that helps hello yeah i'm not i'm not aware of any i mean apart from barry i guess but uh he's the only public etc well i'm aware of okay let me bounce the idea by mike collier 45:14he's with with um he's with uh dcgf global not global foundries the the foundry's arm of dcg nice one thanks so uh as always we're gonna open the floor 45:33up to open discussion if anyone has anything they wanted to mention um please go ahead hybrid so uh you know what epic did initially was to position the hybrid as an alternative to 1049. 45:52i think that you know you saw it was to facilitate discussion and as a platform to show what could happen in mining and to present the facts we've always positioned it as an alternative to 1049. 46:05i think just based on the feedback over the last couple of weeks that you know it is more difficult to do and we'll wait to file the ecp ecip if it's warranted but for now i think just consider on hold and that was a topic discussion okay 46:25that's fair enough and i personally believe that uh that whole topic is worthy of wider discussion because uh as mentioned on the call i think that regardless of what happens even if we do move to show three there might be a point in the future where char four is needed so having 46:45a plan of action before the next algo shift is going to be useful regardless of what happens so let's have the conversation in the future okay agreed uh yeah hello who's this yeah i'm just uh i just had a question about bitcoin details 47:02about that just saw it on the corner of like it's like the ip uh discussion i think it's like 1096. 47:17does anyone want to comment on that i'm not familiar with that particular ecip i'm a i just noticed this one today like i never seen this one before sorry could you repeat the number i'll just check it out quickly uh 1096. 47:34i have no i never we have a channel on discord for this it's ecib dash 1096 dash bitcoin dash merged mining and it's been basically dormant for one and a half years at least it's withdrawn 47:55it has been withdrawn so riggy this is the situation the in in 2020 in august there were 51 attacks on etc and the person who wrote this uh ecib 1096 sergio lerner he came to uh 48:13ethereum classic to propose uh two things one was this um to do merge mining with with bitcoin and then he did other other proposals i think he participated in debates of mess etcetera but basically what that is is to 48:30eliminate independent mining and use the bitcoin miners to produce the blocks for etc so the the bitcoin miners would produce the the the blocks for bitcoin but for easier hashes or hashes that need a little bit of work some of those could be can be used to 48:49produce blocks for or um etc um so you use the same hashing power of bitcoin but to also produce blocks for for epc that would eliminate 100 of the miner base that is dedicated to to 49:06edc and some i think that litecoin and dogecoin have merged mining where they use the same base of miners and the network rsk which is smart contracts on bitcoin their blocks are also produced by by 49:23the bitcoin miner base so it's merged mining in in ethereum classic there's no plans this was withdrawn it was rejected at the time in terms of debate so there's no plans for merge mining in it here in classic sergio is from rsk right he works for rsk rootstock yes 49:44yeah that's an interesting project to yourself sorry if it's withdrawn then i guess this ends uh cosmo quark's question on the channel uh where he asks i'm assuming this is no longer needed that question was in october nobody answered um so it seems that we can remove the channel then 50:04right if the ecib is it has been withdrawn anyway yeah i think some mods can uh clean that up all right yeah i just had a question because i sure feel rejected or not but uh thank you no thank you actually um uh sergio and or someone from rsk might be another interesting 50:24guest to have on given that uh rootstock is a basically sort of positioning itself similar to edc but uh obviously with much more of a dependence on bitcoin and less uh decentralized because currently rootstock relies on a a 50:42bridge basically rootstock is an ethereum virtual machine chain that uses bitcoin as its underlying currency and that's pegged using a bridge and is merge mined with bitcoin so it's an interesting approach to adding smart contract capability to bitcoin 51:00but uh it's not currently decentralized really compatibility 51:17uh i believe that ethereum two is going to be largely backwards compatible so that all the contracts that have deployed already will still operate and if that's the case then in terms of the contracts deployed to ethereum um mainnet sorry ethereum foundation chain they 51:36are likely to remain compatible with the theorem classic but uh obviously it's difficult to tell what they're planning long term and whether they're going to break that compatibility or require some weird new contract system to deal with things like sharding so there's no guarantee compatibility will be maintained indefinitely but i think for the foreseeable 51:56future it will remain there's something called the evm standard ethereum virtual machine standard and there's a group of blockchains that all use the evm standard one of course is ethereum which is the original one and the one who invented it and 52:14the theorem classic and then there's other approval stake blockchains that use the evm standard and so all that group of blockchains should continue to use um the evm standard because when you are within the standard just like 52:31when when original equipment manufacturers build for windows or form or or for other or for linux uh you have to be within the standard and follow the standard and follow the lead of the standard uh it's going to be unlikely 52:49that etc ethereum and the other evm chains are not going to be compatible i would say because that's the normal behavior of these technological systems that have network index um so i would say in terms of likelihood uh etc today is 100 compatible in 53:07the sense that it is the identical technology as ethereum and it is going to continue to be compatible because any change any future changes of the evm standard is very likely going to be followed by all edm chains i think i think that's uh pretty much correct with 53:25a small caveat and that is that there's already like small divergences um that are like small edge cases that might eventually grow into larger edge cases whereby these quote-unquote standard evms are like not compatible i mean for 53:45example i believe the recent mystique hard fork because they one of the op codes added to london was not integrated so any contract that uses that opcode is i believe currently not able to be deployed on etc but because it's a new op code that doesn't no 54:04one's written a contract for it yet so uh i might not be fully accurate with that but that is a potential place that things can go away and this is one of the reasons that i believe that uh version inc evm versioning is a really important thing for etc to implement as soon as possible really not 54:23just for that reason in terms of compatibility but also making future hard forks easier and it's also one of the completely non-contentious only upside kind of hard forks that the whole community can get around so if uh if it wasn't for the show 3 debate uh i would hope that we would be spending a lot more time on these kind of 54:42hard forks that can get like absolute consensus that is a good point because because they're going to be some underlying technological differences under the hood for example etc is going to stay with proof of work and not change the monetary policy or the fee model and ethereum already changed those things 55:01and they're going to migrate it's going to migrate to google stake then yes some op codes may be not compatible so that makes them a little bit different for a developer who wants to code solidity it's not going to be exactly the same on one chain and the other questions 55:23from uh participants the floor is open uh if he will go through with that course about blockchain um 55:39yes i am preparing the powerpoint so i do a call like this one sharing my screen and i'll do the course um i was i was looking at the dates i was thinking of someday next week not tuesday so it doesn't overlap with this 55:58call and and the course is two hours and i'm going to talk from the history of the blockchain first technologies in the late 70s to ethereum classic today and its fundamentals etc so i'm going to post it on here on discord 56:16uh whenever i set the date or for that course i also i was thinking that these courses may may be a great addition to the website for people who are interested in learning about blockchain and doing 56:35that on ethereum classic maybe the gateway for them absolutely and we i it'd be awesome to have your entire back catalogue on there donald if uh if you're happy with adding those videos maybe if you want to use a hundred percent 56:54of the articles of the hearing classic eater plan and the videos of etherplan on my channel please just use them you have full authorization to use them for the website so if you want to create a special section or use it for whatever use case you want you have my full authorization 57:14that's very kind of you don't know thank you regarding the the course and why not then it's going to be recorded so thank you for telling me that so i'm not going to uh and curse to people when when we're recording it i'm going to make it more civilized then i 57:32want to see how you got the time of the course soon um and let everybody know and i'm okay recording it and posting it on on the website as well everything i do that is if you're in classic content please use it 57:51at will um now i have to go guys uh i have another call at work so thank you very much estora and bro brother for organizing this thank you everybody else for participating goodbye cheers take care bye bye 58:17on this week we will see you again next tuesday at the same time at the same place have a good week take care bye

DAO Hacker Unmasked, Website Launch

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