ClassicDAO Update, Proof of Stake Discussion

0:03hello and welcome to ethereum classic community calls chat that happens on the ethereum classic discord server every tuesday usually at 1500 hours utc the content of these calls is decided by the etc community if you'd like to contribute you can join us on discord at ethereumclassic.org 0:22discord and you'll find us in the community course channel if you'd like to help spread the good word of classic make sure you comment on this video like it subscribe share and hit the notification bell to 0:38etc call number 17 this is the 15th of march 2022. 0:51this week we have a an open agenda it's a free talk where people can bring up ideas discuss any topic that's on their mind so um why don't we kick things off by uh saying hello and uh welcoming who's on that call this week we have uh widow garten how are you yeah 1:09i'm good um progress with uh cetera is good you got lots of clients in the last uh few weeks and things are building up uh there's some there's a little bit of drama because we pulled out of uh classic swaggos and everybody thinks that it was some evil thing but it was a very 1:27amicable breakup um so very interesting to see uh to see people lash off on twitter a little bit uh but hope and so i have a tentative agreement with classic dao so i actually want to hear from him today so that we can get an idea of what like his plan is because it's risky to make a dowel on etc but um if you can pull it off that's gonna be big 1:48yeah that's uh i think there's a few teams trying to do the down so it'll be uh nice to have some competition there and yeah hopefully you can join us on the call to uh plane i uh i've seen that the classic swaggers uh app slash project in the sort of twitter 2:06sphere but haven't really looked into it in detail is that something that's um been going on for a while uh yeah they've been doing it well i was part of their team almost from the start um when their lead dev started getting all greedy and stuff uh they had to they had to get rid of him and i basically just took 2:26over and started like doing the majority of the project so um but that they launched i think some end of january something like january 25th um i think for me it's definitely because i have my profile picture as uh as one of these guys and i changed the background 2:44to support the ukraine uh the warren well against the war in ukraine um but uh sorry lashing out um but yeah so i was working on uh on classic swaggers uh and and yeah 3:02cool and they're yeah i like them and the project's still going i guess so you can still mint oh yeah yeah yeah yeah they're gonna find someone else to to do their their uh their new uh they have a new baby swaggers thing coming up so hopefully i wish them best of luck with that cool 3:21yeah we should have them listed on the website i didn't um see actually i was working on that right before i left i might finish that up i'll see if i can get in contact with uh with darth vader sure or you could just uh uh drop a pull not a pull request but just an issue or you can dm me and i can uh try and sort that out i just need like 3:40a url for the website okay cool that was here hey how's it going hey classic down dot etc how are you good good quite a few updates since last time i've been on this call yeah when was that like maybe two months ago i 3:58believe that was the first or second week of january when we made our debut right cool cool so how's it going what's what have you been up to good good we're are set to launch our website within the next 4:16two weeks we have had some problems with the domain uh we had some problems with the domain that was causing us problems and we couldn't really work with it too well so we got a new developer a new website host hopefully that's going to be able to host 4:36anything that we need from the our our future the future swap not swap sorry the future place where you can vote for a token and like the interface where you vote to something that we talked to habit swap about integrating hands into our website cool i'm assuming that your uh classic dow.etc 4:56domain is on hensrite it is cool the uh those listening hens is um eb or i don't know how to pronounce it uh ethereum name servers how do you pronounce that yeah it's 5:14i think it's heavy i'm not sure though okay we could probably confirm from there but yeah cool so um in terms of classic dow what is the uh what are your aims with this [Music] i'm sorry could you repeat that yeah so what are you trying to accomplish 5:33with classic dow what's uh what's the goal so i there's there's a few things it's one of them being that we launched a dao that funds future projects on ethereum classic another is that we plan to open a 5:54mining facility that all people who own their tokens who own the token cld which is our future token for classic now will receive a small percentage of the revenue each month and so on and so forth cool you 6:12is the website launched yet not yet it's probably going to be a launch within the next week or two and it's gonna it's gonna show a whole inter it's gonna be it's gonna be a pretty interesting thing cool and will that website be like uh uh a dap that you can interact using metamask 6:32it will be because you'll connect your metamask to show all the amount of tokens you hold representing how many boats you have and what and what not awesome sounds exciting it would be like the first real down classic apart from the dao the original that i have that failed yeah wasn't there also technically you could 6:52call it saturn dao yeah that's right sorry i kind of uh missed out on that whole uh saturn dao period and uh i guess it doesn't exist anymore so i guess the the first um the first classic dow body tc and uh this 7:11new kind of wave of the ecosystem that's happened lately yeah with with more movement and that with more movement within the ecosystem we thought it'd probably be best to try work something here here something for the long term awesome are you planning to do a uh crowdfund 7:30slash raise uh yes speaking of that uh uh me and what are we we're working together we're we're we're suit we're soon to have a our token token launch for classic now it's 7:47gonna the initial offering is probably gonna be somewhere in april and then later on come may is when the dial might launch okay great best of luck with that and uh please do keep us updated on this call and 8:04we can uh blast out by listeners thank you uh you you have uh a good number of clients with your um auditing uh venture is that right well it sort of morphed from auditing because 8:24we did initially go and approach them uh to audit their smart contracts but then we realized that they just don't really have you know the the development uh aspect for the smart contract so i was like okay why don't we just make it so that we just kind of take over part of their project to help them to 8:43create it so i have uh let me let me get it here so we have uh one project that i cannot name um but has to do with one person that i fired while making um classic swap so so that's that i'll talk about that uh on a future call for sure uh we're just trying to uh make sure we have 9:03stuff done uh classic dao so we have like a tentative agreement um uh we have not begun work yet but it should be within like you know the next week hopefully and we can get to work uh i'm personally gonna be working mostly on the crowd sale uh and my team will be uh finishing off the user interface for for the whole crowd 9:22selling everything like that uh so we'll make sure that's uh that's as good as it can and so we also so we used to work uh now with fr with classic swaggers so i talked about that earlier and then classic grays i also been working with them uh things are a little slower now nowadays but i hope but we can get the ball rolling again and and 9:41you know continue development um so and then there was also what was that other guy um patient money his project um that had to do it was i think it was called classic rewards it's launching on on binance uh so i'm working with him uh on on the etc 10:00portion uh with the smart contracts for his nft and all that stuff uh and the ipfs uh interplanetary file system uh uploads you know there's a lot of stuff there's a lot of little things that come uh when doing this so we're not doing auditing i mean we do make sure 10:18that we do audit the contracts that we use uh and we uh and we we make sure to release that we're working on a website right now so hopefully we can get a website up soon so that way i can you know have all of the stuff in like one place so that everyone can go and see that um but in terms of uh 10:37viability it seems that people you know need help uh you know with the blockchain aspect of their projects it's kind of where to come upon so with to have someone like our team of four people now uh approach them and um and you know offer to help uh 10:56with you know stuff that they don't even understand it tends to work out so we're happy with the position that we're in today and um and we hope to grow i hope to grow it into you know a larger you know etc outside of etc project uh and then release some projects 11:14within ceteria to uh to benefit the projects on etc right now um i don't want to go too much detail because there's nothing confirmed but uh we're working on nft staking nice that sounds uh interesting uh concept for the nft staking and 11:32uh if you have any uh links or anything that you wanted to share let me know and i can put them in the show notes perfect thank you i see that zeno's grey is in here i don't know if he's going to be able to turn his mic on but if he wants to talk about classic race that'd be a good time though 11:55doesn't look like it um so mystique was up uh happened when a few weeks ago right uh yeah that was on last month a month today pretty much a month okay cool and what's next are there plans for another uh another upgrade of i'm sure there is uh 12:14right now i am not sure about what the next hard fork is going to be i'm assuming that uh maintaining compatibility still on the roadmap um there's been some movement on the shah 3 debate and that movement is basically uh now bob 12:32summer will of etc corp is championing the r3 proposal in lieu of alex and i believe bob's current position is that uh it should be on sort of on hold until later this year to see what happens with ethereum post 12:50merge if that ever happens um i did have some to talk about that later on i'm starting to doubt that as well yeah there's um there's potential problems with proof of stake and uh there was a there was an article that landed this week or last week that that 13:11a research article about some problems with ethereum proof of stake in terms of vulnerabilities and obviously it's super complicated there's potentially loads of different attack vectors so it might be one of those things that just gets continually delayed but um yeah so sha 3 is kind of on hold for now uh 13:30and it's not it's not going to be pushed for at least until like q3 of this year i would assume that that's just my like impression i i don't know for sure apart from that in terms of upgrades um i personally think it's time for us to be discussing other potential things that ethereum classic could be integrating 13:50my personal thing of choice would be versioning system such that different versions of the evm can be applied to different contract deployments that would make it super easy to maintain backwards compatibility and make future upgrades easier without breaking 14:08kodi's law sounds good so i'm not really familiar with um like the blockchain aspect of the blockchain so recently uh litecoin got its mimble wimble protocol which is pretty interesting it's not uh it's not live yet for users but is that something that 14:27could theoretically be implemented into etc or a similar version of that or is this just something that's completely off the table so mimblewimble i believe only works with a utxo model i'm not 100 sure of that but basically ethereum the evm accounts model is not really compatible 14:45with it so there are potential similar approaches to having um privacy and less data on chain using zero knowledge proofs and stuff but i don't think mimblewimble itself is compatible with ethereum that makes sense not wim i didn't really mean mimblewimble but i meant like somebody 15:04in the in the chat asked about private private transactions uh it would be a good idea but the one thing that i s that that i noticed is that the mimblewimble protocol on litecoin is kind of like a almost a side chain like a separate thing so you it's not that easy to make a mimblewimble transaction unless you know 15:23the wallets start implementing it but it's it's a bit of a mess so that's too bad um because it would be great to just be able to choose whether or not you know you're gonna it's private or not and then just send from a regular wallet and then just be able to receive it into a regular wallet because it's not the case you actually get 15:42it in like a separate you know mimblewimble wallet and it's all one anyway but one thing to uh one thing that you might want to look at that is another one of these low-hanging fruit things that could be ported from ethereum to ethereum classic is tornado swap which is basically a zero knowledge proof 16:02mixing service that would allow you to basically get some level of privacy for classic based assets by you know mixing them together so it's like a smart contract based uh coin mixer correct okay and as far as i know it should just be a case 16:21of cloning and redeploying whatever uh tornado swap is is involved with on ethereum i think the front end is probably open source too that's that's my kind of domain too i'll have to look into that thank you yes that's another one of the really uh useful i don't know how useful depends 16:41who you are i guess um but the more people that use it the more useful it becomes because uh if there's only like a handful of users the anonymity set is kind of small so the more people that use it the more useful it becomes and the easier it is it is to use it the more people that will use it so that's another hurdle anyway 17:00i'm gonna hop off the call thanks everyone for uh uh for for for discussing uh the stuff today and i hope you guys uh have a successful rest of the call cheers have a good week i'd like to mention i didn't get to this earlier but to 17:19get some initial initial funding for classical before the crowd so we've been i have initiated a nft that we're going to sell to raise funds for the project yeah 17:38as i was saying so for classic homeless society we're before the credit cell and any of the funds that we we gained from there we are working also on our nft project that is going to fund our marketing campaign and how we are going to work 17:57with uh whatever purpose um unlike some of the nfc's here better just either copies of others from ethereum or just nfts that don't have anything like out 18:15there that they haven't put forward okay cool so this is like a a kind of cross between a crowd sale and an nft um auction i guess or mint ink session i'm not really sure what it's called yeah somewhat 18:32it's it's like the nft sale is going to happen before the before the launch of our official token cell that's an interesting concept definitely uh something that we should uh back on in future sounds 18:52good for this uh what kind of nfts are you planning it's good it's gonna be some it's gonna it's gonna be another like uh picture it's gonna it's gonna be like pictures of stuff but it's gonna i don't know sorry about it personally it's a project i'm working on i don't know if people agree 19:12the person who i'm working with with nfc project what they do is none of what has nothing to do with me but have you you guys have heard of classic homeless society correct uh personally no i'm not really uh following the nft stuff on twitter all right so 19:31i i'm working with like um some people from the border club on ethereum classic and decentra which i've heard a lot of people don't like him here he's a scam i haven't really gone into how's your scammer i've never really gone 19:51into detail anything i got scared i'm not really questioning anybody about one etc on some petty so that's why i didn't work with him we're working on an mft project and i'm using the funds i get from there to 20:09focus on the dao and then i'm also working with uh two developers from as i said the board api club on ethereum classic uh malad and zarvin the hub developer everything else are our things going to be mainly focused we're going to be we're it's going to it's 20:28like towards like homeless homelessness funds are going to be focused towards the like homeless charities we're gonna we plan to launch our own token with it have some events and we're actually announcing things before before 20:47we launch unlike some other projects that i've seen that's awesome i is this is the first kind of um real world sort of uh helping dow that i've seen on classic i guess it's kind of like a charity effort right i 21:08was hoping next year so you know how there's uh bitcoin 2022 right i'm hoping with between now and next year theorem classic that we're able to ethereum classic 2023. 21:23yeah we were talking about that on a previous call i think um trying to figure out where that would be located in uh the bitcoin one is uh miami right yes it is i plan to attend the seaworld but yeah from there from people i i also think that uh a bitcoin conference would be a 21:43good sort of uh sister i mean if ethereum classic conference was a sister to bitcoin 23 then that would be a good idea i think it's the right kind of mix of people yeah that could bring a lot i could bring a lot of exposure to the blockchain as a whole 22:04do you know what month that's in it is in april i believe it is april 22nd i have to verify that okay cool yeah i think um we should we should definitely be looking towards doing something like this and it doesn't really require that much organization 22:22i think it doesn't i mean we could try and hire a venue and stuff but it doesn't really have to be like that it could just be a kind of casual sort of meetup as opposed to a proper event with tickets yeah that's something we can work people in the community could work out only 22:41time will tell how how it goes uh topic that i had lined up which is about proof of stake having a a conference with a bitcoin um community we would share the belief that um proof of stake is uh probably 23:01not the best option going forward for a number of reasons are you with us um are you with us this week uh werner i see you in the chat uh yes i'm here how are you doing good good thank you i i'm assuming you're uh uh favorable towards a proof of work of a proof 23:21of stake right um yes of course though i'm not sure if if the proof of work will really have a have a basically an infinite future i would suspect that we may see some external pressure coming pushing 23:39crypto more and more towards proof of stake because of our environmental concerns and so that's might eventually force everyone to move the proof of stake but i don't know how fast this would happen i mean there have been a push in the in the in europe 23:59um basically prohibits anything that comes from proof of work but fortunately there's no reason before deciding on something like that yeah i saw that yes okay i guess everybody will um be very interested in following what happens on ethereum what their experiences 24:17are because that's finally a really big coin that is that is changing and attackers who might have some have found something some way to um to abuse a proof-of-stake system they might just holding back until some really really big comes to make it really 24:36worth the effort so i guess this will be a very interesting experience so hopefully we will have proof of work for a good while because i mean something that's proven it it works we know we know the risks we know what we can do about them and proof of stake there's still a lot a lot of unknowns and 24:57given that there's a huge amount of money riding on that it makes perfect sense to be conservative there but i would expect that in the in the long run in terms of several years uh that they will be push more and more push towards um making life difficult for proof of work and 25:17but we'll have to see how this pans out so that's my general impression of how things will go yeah i tend to agree and i think that uh proof of work blockchains are definitely gonna be well it's already evident that they are under increasing regulatory pressure but i think that's primarily 25:36because proof-of-work blockchains are more censorship-resistant because they are that then they become bigger targets like a group of stake chains i don't think represent a real threat to uh existing institutions because they can be quite easily captured by essentially 25:55financial uh manipulation so obviously it's in the interest of the incumbent institutions to get rid of any proof-of-work uh competition because they can't control it but that being said i think the the nature of power distribution geographically means 26:15that proof-of-work blockchains are never going to be fully able to be stamped out because different jurisdictions because of different states having sovereign claims to different geographies unless there's like a one world government that controls every geography it 26:33would never be able to fully remove the ability to mine will stop so whether it gets driven underground or it becomes just more difficult i think it will always survive in one way or the other yeah what was a bit nasty about this proposal and they had in europe well if i understand this correctly is that they were 26:52basically and they were not trying to ban the mining itself but the the the use of of pow derived or generated coins so you could still mine somewhere i mean there are several places in the world where there's no environmental 27:12issue with mining you have green energy that's that exists in in abundance and um but he couldn't use them let's say well the europe would do something like this or the u.s or another big market then you 27:31couldn't use them there to do to do to change it for something else or to do any other operations with it so that that would be enough that would be sort of a second level always and of course you have those those places very simply say no wait we don't want any pw mining in our country and if you build a farm then they will go after you so that's 27:51that's probably sort of the the first level so you have risks on various levels and yes what the ultimate motivation is whether it's really the the good of the planet or if if the if they're just concerned about uh uh staying in control that's that's again uh a 28:09separate area yeah you make a good point about that um in terms of the mining and the use of the currency being separate things but the i feel like the use part is much more difficult to um regulate 28:26because if if you're like a an eu citizen and all of your activity is done on a server in some other country then it's going to be really difficult to um you know if you're not actually doing anything wrong in that jurisdiction then is 28:45also undetectable but unlike with mining in a factory it's pretty difficult to hide that yeah it depends on what you're doing i mean if you say uh putting your savings savings into crypto on some wallet then it's pretty much anonymous 29:03so not much can be done to you with that but if you then decide to use your savings and say buy buy a house then you need to convert this into something that that the seller will will accept and if the seller is in in one of those respective the u.s directions then they couldn't 29:22accept um your forbidden coin and you may not be able to exchange it your coin for us for something you can use um because then this your your money would basically be tainted so so you could you may not be able to to change 29:41it in your in your bank in this in this area that prohibits the pure w coin and you might have difficulties with um converting it outside and it's just sending the money because they will ask for for proof of uh that you got it for military source and so and then you could not justify that so this could get really messy i mean sure there's there was 30:01ways around it but then you don't want to to have to resort to kind of big crime type of money laundering just day-to-day business yeah um that would get very complicated and difficult to uh track i guess because it would it would kind of require every 30:20exchange to ring fence different types of currencies so like uh you you would not be able to trade your green coins for your dirty coins um because then as you said it would be tainted and be no longer allowed to be used in in europe but then that would be true 30:39for the entire province of all the coins including like if you ever owned bitcoin and then you traded it for some i don't know proof of stake coin then oh no this is uh this is from dirty money so it can't be used in the eu i just think it's like regulatory wise it's going to be extremely difficult and it 30:59just creates a massive incentive to find ways around that sort of approach as you said the the regulators saw a bit of sense and haven't dropped themselves in the foot because realistically 31:16it's it's not really gonna protect uh individuals at the end of the day it's more gonna hurt the eu or whichever jurisdiction that implements these draconian regulations because they will not be able to innovate they'll lose out um 31:35like if everyone else is using this amazing new technology and you prevent its use then well don't be surprised if you get left behind of course uh they might think that actually promoting the development of the of the even more advanced proof of stake which is 31:53success of provo work so i'm not quite sure what what logic applies there and also you wouldn't i wouldn't underestimate the willingness of regulators to uh to require things that are not really practical uh it's all a kind of difficult area everything that's 32:10politics and um now i mean the the the main reason why i'm also i'm happy that's that that didn't make this kind of move in europe is that um there's simply not enough experience with book of steak i mean at least if if you want to push everybody to use proof of stake make sure that that 32:30we know that that it's safe to use now exactly a big test will come basically it will probably take years till we can be till we will have seen the the most common attacks the most common problems i mean those could also be issues that are not not based on attacks just the system failing for some reason or 32:50showing have some instabilities and so on and that it's getting in the way of some improvements you need to make on the network and so there can be lots of issues and it would simply be move 33:08ahead with a big change like this before you've established a little bit of experience yeah for sure um and picking up on something you you mentioned there is there is this idea that proof of stake is in some way like a next generation and that it's progress in some way like proof 33:26of work was the first thing and it's kind of like uninspiring and simplistic and because technological advancements are made the next stage is proof of stake and it's it's kind of just people assume that's a given but my opinion is that it's it's not like 33:45that at all proof of stake is is actually it's a little bit of a how can i put this nicely it's it's it's a technical additional technical complexity that doesn't actually add any functionality the 34:03pro the protocol itself it doesn't actually make the blockchain more secure so from a pragmatic point of view it doesn't actually add anything in fact it's a security downgrade but the real reason that it's been implemented is is it because it enables holders of the currency to profit basically 34:21the only reason that people support it is because instead of paying miners they can pay themselves and that's why it became popular in my opinion in other words rupees stake is like the hotel asking you to reuse towels to save the planet on the surface it's for noble intentions in reality it's making them money and giving 34:39you a worse service well one could say that basically all of those concepts are simply forms of uh proof of money and so you base basically just so you're basically proving that you're um are you willing to put some money at risk um and 34:59with this you're basically offering a collateral for the veracity of the blocks that you're proposing and whether you do this in terms of burning energy which you then have to pay with money or whether you do this by having a having some staking where you put money into the staking or if you do this 35:18with storage or you have to buy tons of hard disks or whatever uh it doesn't really matter in the end so it's it's basically like the concept of anchoring the um your your chain on something that's tangible in the way that's tangible in the real world that you're not completely hanging out in the air and um 35:39proof of sticks surely and reduces this attachment so proof of work is more down to earth you can't just uh well you have kind of uh differences in energy prices maybe of a factor of 20 but you can't have energy that's a thousand times cheaper than that as maybe 35:58you can figure out a way to do this and it completely distorts the competition so it's so proof of work is more firmly rooted in the real world than things like proof of stake and but in principle it's always it's always the question of whether you are actually um um willing to to 36:18risk something that is of value to you uh as uh as a collateral for the blocks that you're saying okay to accept right and the the fundamental distinction there is that the security anchor in proof of work is external of the system that is trying to secure 36:37whereas in proof of stake that anchor the currency itself is part of the system itself so it's like an internally sourced security in a sense it's like a perpetual motion machine where the energy comes from itself where as we know those those kind of systems are not really sustainable 36:57long-term and they're more susceptible to like radical shifts or volatility that's where it gets interesting security-wise i mean they have the the existing anchor from all the things that have been mined with overwork so at the beginning they still have 37:16a fairly close relationship to the sort of the firm attachment that provides work but then over time it can go oh we can go anywhere so that's all i'm saying that it will take some time till we can see how that is what really happens there is these these ties uh getting less and less important in the in 37:36the ecosystem and and whether we will see well maybe it just works maybe there will be no big problems maybe maybe fear will crush a week after after the merge maybe people will come up with fans fancy new ideas fancy new attacks in the months and years of that that follow 37:55it's completely open i'd say yeah i i do wonder if from a from ethereum mainnet's point of view in foundations ethereum's point of view is is it a worse outcome to cancel proof of stake and just stick on proof of work or is it a worse outcome to try and do proof 38:13of stake and have it fail and then be forced to go back to proof of work i mean both both scenarios are bad but i guess in the latter at least they attempt it to do it and they can say oh well we tried but it didn't work so now we're back on proof of work in terms of face saving i would say there's no way for them not to do proof of 38:33stake it's just a question of what what will the the adversities they will have to deal with and how the value act i mean they're already good at rolling back things right so maybe they will do this a few times yeah i think you're right there's the only the only tactic they can apply 38:51and probably will continue to is to just delay and delay and with this new um uh paper that got launched about two new attacks on the proof of stake protocol that ethereum is doing they have yet another reason to delay and there's no reason that can't continue forever like if you just add fixes 39:11upon fixes upon fixes then well it might never release i'm not sure they really have that choice either i mean they've said that i loved a lot of times recently that they will deliver this year basically according to schedule 39:28and also there are the smaller coins that are stealing the show with uh with going to stake so eventually if they want to keep that credibility they we'll have to do this and yeah you mentioned this paper am i planning to talk about that i 39:47have not read the paper in detail yet so i first wanted to get to wrap my head around the attack itself and it requires a fairly intimate knowledge of the existing proof of stake implementation which i'm not familiar with so not right now but i just wanted to put it 40:07out there to kind of highlight the sort of the beta nature of of what ethereum is potentially switching to and the potential dangers in that and the effect that that would have on the theorem classic because i i mean yes it does it doesn't it does affect us anything 40:25but any any any notable risks only on proof of stake of of course something that's uh that shows that etc did well by sticking with proof of work and of course um i would expect that if this is if this is if these are serious threats 40:44and then i would expect the people from ethereum also to take this into account and maybe even doesn't delay things if necessary i mean it will certainly be a good reason not just an excuse for delaying things uh if there's if there's some serious flaws in the system uh but yeah we would have to see 41:03what's um what the interpretation of this is um have you posted a link of this somewhere uh yeah you can find it in the show notes in the markdown file for this uh show number 17. 41:17thanks it's it's currently just a research paper yes but uh that the the potential is that it reveals a fundamental problem with their approach to proof of stake that is pretty difficult to overcome without massively reworking it right it's like you've 41:36built a skyscraper and you're about to get off the keystone and then you figure out that you're you know you haven't dug deep enough in your foundation so you have to tear the whole thing down and build it again and that could be like a a multi-year rebuild and if that's the case then it does somewhat change the well 41:56it plays into the shah 3 debate on on ethereum but ethereum classic for sure because um first of all it buys time um and i think i think we should be in any way planning for some kind of at least potential transition long-term transition um 42:17sort of regardless of what happens because i think it's quite likely that ethereum may not switch for another two or three years and if that's the case then do we really want to be waiting along on uh on the existing algorithm for that long no 42:35immediate pressure but yeah i mean if you stay stays on pow forever then this might be a valid consideration i'm not sure they they would be very interested in dealing that i think they everywhere whenever they talk about it it's basically happening 42:55soon even even before even first and it was the end of the first half of this year i mean uh this seems to be really a point of conversions in the past uh yeah it will be soon but then they always pushed it but this it does seem to have reached 43:13a point where i don't want to let it slip for for some more more time of course if there's some major issue that's um that requires a complete redesign that would be a different thing but um well we have to say that never have to see what um well whatever their reaction is i 43:32mean they have all that all the people who thought about the uh the design and the theory behind it and so on but how they interpret this paper and um of course if they're so if there's a big if there's a major issue then this thing might drift by a lot a lot more than anybody is 43:49happy with um but if there's some quick fix or if they say it's something theoretically that will never happen in real life then it might still things might still proceed as planned but not sure what the impact will be i mean as i said they also have the issue that 44:06um they want to be the ones who are bringing a proof of stake to the world but if they wait too long then they will be bypassed by others now the others there that i'm doing with stake they're still small but coins can grow over time mainly fearing wasn't always wasn't 44:25always as big as it is today either so there's this risk so if if they wonder if they want to to be the top coin with poop of steak and then eventually they have to do something and maybe i don't know how their motivation is whether they have a healthy safety 44:44first culture or if eventually justice just yes we have to do it let's say let's face safe and um difficult to to tell what the motivations will be and what the decisions will be but i guess the first step 45:03of this thing is to see what um what the experts think whether they act whether they acknowledge this is a big issue or if they say it's something that we have to worry about but maybe not now or maybe maybe we can add a little safeguard something of this yeah i feel like they will probably their 45:23hand is almost forced at this point and even if there is this kind of obvious attack they might just be of the opinion that hey if it breaks then we can walk again in the future and fix it if we need to or do some other like duct tape fix but yeah i guess it depends how serious the problem is and i'm 45:41not sure how open and honest they're going to be about that publicly because it could if it was a serious problem they wouldn't really want to admit it and would need to do damage control on that so difficult to tell um what they're really thinking on it but uh yeah something to keep an eye out for and 46:00we're coming up to the hour so uh if there's anything that anyone wanted to add before we wrap up please jump in now joining us and participating and listening in this week's call we will hope to see you next week possibly at the same time possibly 46:20a slightly different time but we will make sure update everyone and uh you can follow the announcement in the discord channel so thanks for joining us and see you next week bye

ClassicDAO Update, Proof of Stake Discussion

Description

Agenda

Status

Full Transcript