Grayscale Funding, ETC DAO, Bitcoin Conference

0:19community call number 21 today is the 12th of april 2022. 0:30updates regarding the funding of ethereum classic including uh an update from bob summerwell which has been posted in the discord channel which we will jump right into and we i believe have some other contributions from community members which we'll also discuss 0:50in detail so first of all the news from bob is that as uh grayscale has ceased funding for ethereum uh 1:07classic via the ethereum classic cooperative uh funding model which they were previously donating three percent or some percentage of the fees that were made through the greyscale uh etcg fund and 1:26that was previously going to etc co-op but since uh of last month that funding has ceased and whilst this may sound like a um negative there's quite a big uh good news embedded in there which is that the thermal classic cooperative is currently 1:44sitting on about five million us dollars and several hundred thousand worth of etc um also bob stonewall was kind enough to confirm that the current burn rate is about 1.6 million usd so that 2:02means that uh funding through etc cop will continue for at least another four years which i believe is uh significant positive news for throne classic because it means that there's at least another four years of sort of time to guarantee that the protocol will be maintained 2:21by ethereum classic cooperative and that means another four four years of time to reach a point where funding can be self-sustainable via other avenues such as community dows and just general price action increases that 2:39will cause a snowball effect into development and funding for ethereum classic so i see this as confirmation for a big win for them classic and it's very exciting to be uh getting confirmation that four years of development 2:58is guaranteed now essentially point uh was there any comment on bob's recent announcement yeah um yeah i i think uh maybe we should talk about 3:16what he said his priorities were for that bond which um i have to scroll back in the chat here but it looked like he was uh continuing to fund the um the endpoints for i believe it's ethercluster.com um so that's a good public good um i 3:36believe he's funding i don't know how many people for client maintenance but that's also good i i can't remember if it's if he said three two um it looked like he was also going to hire a couple other people so it'll be interesting to see kind of what that is um sorry i'm still scrolling up in the chat 3:55to see as exact so i can quote the the uh burn rate comment which was total spend for etc co-op in 2021 was just under 500k us dollars budgeted spend for etc co-op in 2022 is 1.6 million we have added the corget developers 4:13since 2021 and have budget for a further three hires during the year plus a grants program so yeah as you mentioned um covering a lot of the basic and essential stuff including um public endpoints and also importantly client development and excitedly 4:32uh a potential future grants program so that's a lot of exciting stuff there yeah yeah and i'm seeing just one other comment just a little bit below that and it says uh uh his team has been working on the endpoints because they've been a little spotty recently um and so it looks 4:50like they switched to rivet uh which i think rivet has pretty favorable pricing so that's probably a smart move for improved reliability and then it looks like uh i know they have some sort of faucet for mordor but i think the heebie swap guys actually put 5:09up a front end for that uh i know that they were talking about doing that and maybe a monitor or something like that um but those were some of the other uh lifts that they were doing over there at co-op so i think it's important to just kind of note the scope of kind of their priorities and hopefully it comes out with like a a blog article or something like 5:28that that really clarifies uh where they're gonna um allocate those funds and and help the network i guess there's there's quite a lot of uncertainty about what this actually meant 5:47for etc going forward but this announcement really clears things up and is a big relief i think swap guys are real really kind of being their mvps at 6:06the moment uh they're really churning out lots of good apps and uh useful uh services on ethereum classic so thanks to those guys working on some stuff and uh yeah they're mordor faucet was really nice i don't 6:26know what's going on with cauti um cody's the proof of authority test that um but it i i haven't been able to find faucets or anything like that uh that are active so um so that might be something that uh we as a community need to look into um polishing up especially when we're we're trying to get 6:45uh developers over here to start propping things up um i think i think we really need to focus on on those public goods that enable them to do that authority test net with a reliable full set is going to be like one of the the key 7:04things to help developers i mean proof of proof of work test nets are notoriously spotty and having something that's just like sound and reliable and ideally with a fixed uh block time uh it's super useful for development so yeah 7:22good to identify that as a potential thing to to help get funded or just built out really do we know who the uh authorities on uh kotti are afri i 7:41think afri was like a a big person uh related to that um i'm sure it's in the repo but uh you know it's it's been since like 2020 since i really heard a lot about cauti out 7:57and thanks for bringing that up can now shift the next uh topic on the agenda which uh you brought to the table get 8:16rolling so why don't you go ahead with uh what you wanted to explain follow-up um you know bob had signaled that they might have been defunded and like you had mentioned is we just didn't know if that was going to be a positive negative we kind of we didn't know um 8:35about the four-year commitment uh for development so i agree that that's like that's a great um a great way to look at that um but in the interim uh i had spoke i think on call 10 and call 11 about building 8:54a positive feedback loop where users you know pay fees for products on top of etc and those fees essentially fund open source um development and so you know that's something that i think has been i've at least talked about it for 9:13quite a while there wasn't a lot of appetite back in the days because there was privately funded teams but that seems to be changing um as we look forward and uh to a network that's not relying on private funds but rather transaction 9:33fees and use cases uh to build up the network and secure the network um so i think that there's going to be a lot of high value in that um you know this will mean that you're going to have a lot more utility for your etc uh you'll see the d5 stack essentially that you see on ethereum uh all of that stuff 9:52will start coming online um we already have some stuff in testnet uh through my rolodex of developers um started getting them excited about that when the merge uh happened in march um and so you know i think a lot of people are starting to see the value of vtc with that 10:12migration actually happening um and then uh i had also mentioned um in wyoming here in the united states uh they have made a subtype of llcs for dow llcs so in the united states it's actually uh feasible 10:30to set up a legal entity that is a dow llc uh we had spoke about kind of approaching this type of funding as a community um in many ways and this was just one of the ways uh and i see a lot of value in that 10:47because it allows for 1099 uh um you know signing of 1099 collecting enough funds uh that are tax exempt um so there's just there's just a lot of value in having a legal entity there's also uh a 11:06little more um i guess credibility to an organization like that opposed to just a random wallet address um it'll be registered with the irs for instance you know you have that accountability in that there there's real people behind it uh that 11:24won't just disappear um so anyway so that's in motion uh i hired legal representation to make sure that that was all done correctly um the guys that actually set up you know built that uh subtype for llc's those are the guys that are setting it up so um i think when all of that is said and done you know they'll 11:43be excited that their names on it um especially to help this network um and then in terms of um the products that we're working on um we've figured out you know how to collect the fonts we're leaning on uh open zeppelin uh audited smart contracts for those type of uh uh 12:02transactions uh you know there's highly qualified developers that are working on this guys that i've known working on solidity since uh you know 2015. 12:10um so and then security experts that are at reputable companies they obviously don't want their name to be known um but they're big players in the space and they see the value here um they want to stay anonymous because of uh their employment their current employment 12:28but uh they're excited about it and so i'm excited that um you guys will see that stuff start coming online and uh and hopefully that just kind of jump starts that type of funding model i hope many other people attempt to try to do that um but 12:46it'll be nice to at least have this one in motion um during 2022 and for the minor migration event so when people are saying what's being built on etc you can definitely say that uh it'll 13:04have the ethereum defy stack on it for sure and hopefully an improved version of that with a lot less centralization admin keys all of that stuff that's the goal any of the developers that i talked to working on this uh they're in the same boat they want to make sure that that stuff's done right um you 13:23know trying to make sure at least anything that i touch that it's in the ethos of uh this you know cypherpunk and uh and um and crypto in general so anyway so that's the update uh you know you guys will see stuff go online you know in the next couple months 13:40something like that uh maybe maybe left but uh um you guys will be well aware of it and still i hope that that's good news on the back of uh of the five million dollar fund that co-op uh has to work with as well i'm 14:03sure everyone really appreciates your hard work there um just a couple of comments on that uh as you were talking about the whole uh cypherpunk and i guess uh for lack of a better word decentralized defy um this is something that i think is potentially 14:23under recognized as a a big potential win for ethereum classic given that a lot of the ethos for decentralization was sort of ignored on ethereum mainnet a lot of the d5 protocols have also inherited that lack of care for decentralization and 14:40i think ethereum classic as a existing in response to centralization has a unique opportunity to have a not just a protocol but also a ecosystem with a healthy desire and a dna that is like primarily caring about decentralization 15:06i think there's uh real value there you know um and i think there was value in a lot of the d5 stack on ethereum right they were they were the first ones really doing that um so there's just we have an opportunity to improve where um maybe they have centralized points there 15:24if possible um and then uh and what's great is that you know we'll be able to connect to all of the other evms and have that interoperability that uh i think we've all seen for a very long time so i think there's going to be trade-offs 15:42you know where you can say um oh i want to put these funds in a completely decentralized protocol and you can come to ethereum classic for that or i want to go to you know some very centralized evm uh because i don't care about uh 16:02centralizing or decentralization and uh and maybe it's speed or something like that that uh is favored over there and they can easily move through that um so so we're looking at bridges as well obviously um there's federated bridges and then some other ones so the decentralized element 16:21of bridges is pretty hard right now um i think token bridge tried to do that with a amb messaging system um but i know i know like multi-coin for instance that uh has just taken off over the last year or two uh i don't fully know 16:41all of the details of that so i'll be looking into that um but we will be looking at ways to connect what we're propping up on ethereum classic and that d5 stack that i speak of and that positive feedback uh funding loop for development um and which we will try to connect that to the greater 17:00evm ecosystem uh so that liquidity um can come over to etc with a higher velocity than it it uh does today so that's the goal um i hope that makes sense oh and i'm sorry and uh and we had spoke about 17:20um i think one of the challenges we have right now uh with this model uh we had spoke about that on the 11 and 10 call um was distributing bonds uh two people and i think uh we'll probably lean on this model what i'm trying to work with uh i think we'll try to lean on git coin uh 17:40to really start that up um so as fun start accumulating all of that and we identify the thing the next thing that we need to prop up um we will uh you'll start seeing you know bounties go up over there and that's that'll just kind of be how it starts up that's 17:58the easy way to start up um and then we'll we'll see how everything evolves um it's definitely a work in progress it's a big lift but uh i think in the long term uh it's high value for the network and once it gets going it's just it'll be that snowball effect take 18:21advantage of something like git coin where all of the the complicated stuff has already been done basically so definitely a good tool to leverage and on top of that bitcoin does integrate with uh like public ledgers so if in the future there was 18:39a need to potentially reference any donations made via github sorry git coin uh a future smart contract could take that into account using a storage proof is just kind of credit to the private teams 18:56that have been around etc i think etc labs was the one that really uh did the contract to get um etc supported in git coin um so that type of integration and how kind of the whole crypto um the cryptoverse i think is how they call it these days um has 19:15adopted etc and hard wallets and you know it's just everywhere it's integrated everywhere so it's really nice that a lot of the uh the foundational work is there and i think uh we as a community have an opportunity to try to uh solve this funding problem uh and um and 19:34i think this is one approach there will be many and whatever sticks whatever works uh it's gonna be great for the network um we're already positioned i think donald says it all the time a lot of people you know think you have to do stuff to ethereum classic to add value that's not the case the protocol itself is in such a great position um 19:54it's really about building on top of it and starting to use the protocol so i think we're at that stage it's exciting and just credit to the previous private teams that kept protocol parity uh kept the clients updated um and just did a lot of those public goods uh that we all rely 20:13on so i want to make it absolutely they'll get their credit for doing the serious lifting that has gone in over the early years of ethereum classic standing on the shoulders of giants and even if all those participants um are 20:32not still actively working on the protocol their contributions do live on and uh we are in a day of gratitude to them and for that matter also the original ethereum uh development team so it's a it's a whole bunch of people um over time and uh yeah 20:52history will i guess look favorably on them sort of make it clear to our listeners that uh you have created a github grants program or sorry a git coin grants program is that 21:10right mean we haven't set up anything so the funds haven't been accumulated but the intent is when the funds accumulate um that is where they'll start being issued uh 21:27to open source development um in in in the form of just bounties there and that'll really uh start the uh the high priority uh um builds and then i think uh i i what i'm hoping is that you know maybe we'll we'll get creative and start thinking of other ways to just distribute those funds that aren't 21:47necessarily just get coin um but you know that's that's in the future so it's it's hard to it's hard to talk about it right now in terms of like if we set up a formal doubt you know like an on-chain dao and all of that that that's just a lot of thing 22:02um that hasn't been done yet so as long as it works and uh there's there's no sort of protocol level um point of centralization then as many different approaches the better in my opinion 22:21and um i i can see on this uh uh git coin page that you have like a little road map and i believe the domain ethereum classic.com may be used for this project did you want to go through some of these ideas yeah yeah so the thought is to use it so that 22:40that dot com uh is essentially you can see uh d5 dashboards like zapper um zapper.phi i believe this one um what d5 llama you know those type of um i don't know if defy llama's a dashboard but um anyways those those d5 management tools uh 22:59the thought is that if you go to ethereumclassic.com uh all of a sudden that's the spot where you can use your ethereum we have the org that really gives you all of the um information and knowledge about the the network and then you go to the com and all of a sudden you're putting your etc to work and interacting 23:19with the protocol and network um and anything that's on that domain is funding that dao which funds the open source development for another product to go on that uh in that uh dashboard and just that that loop is the thought so right now uh bridge 23:37and swaps are really our priority um and then i think we'll we'll try to get a tether over to uh to etc um perhaps if multi coin i believe is the name of that bridge um i think that they have bitcoin uh so maybe we'll get bitcoin so what our goal is to have um etc 23:56usdt market and an etc bitcoin market uh and the thought is that on a very uh easy level um low level thinking uh people will do arbitrage between those markets and the centralized exchange and 24:14that is on chain volume and as that grows and people start you know bots start turning on to do that arbitrage um what we will see is a jump start in the fee market for miners um and you know that's just the basic fundamental level of starting to build uh 24:34that type of volume on chain for ethereum classic where can people go to find out more if they wanted to get involved in this project for 24:54people to go right now just because it's you know it's it's a pretty private lift right now um once it's online i imagine that we'll have something on ethereumclassic.com there will be an article or something posted on the dot org in the discord you know uh there will be conversation about it and so 25:14so just in the normal channels for ethereum classic uh you'll be able to find info and yeah and on the product itself it will likely have links i 25:37i don't know if this is you get ronin but there was a new github repository called classic book i just made that uh just playing around with donald um yeah so yeah so i did i forked uh the ethereum 25:56book and uh i set that up to just yeah we could we can alter the text uh to be more accurate and reflect the ethereum classic in that book uh although they do have like a a good thing on the on the uh the hard fork i think he was pretty accurate there but uh but anyways yeah so if anyone wants to 26:15join and contribute on that um that'd be something i think that would be fun for us to have of the classic mastering ethereum classic yeah i think that's a an awesome idea and actually makes a lot of sense given that the the whole book is already sort of open source and um 26:35contributions can be done in a very similar way to the the protocol itself i i bought uh mastering monero and like they they did their book like that it's a really small one but uh but it was a nice read and it was all just uh open contributions 26:54that built up that book um and uh and then i saw that the ethereum book was open source and that you could just fork it and we could we could make those adjustments uh as a community so um so anyways the thought is you know we can get that up and then uh and maybe drop it on the dot org uh just so it's there 27:13um you know adjust the adjust the covers and all that and really uh you know give our narrative in there uh so so if anyone again if anyone wants to uh join in on that i gotta see if it's an open public repo i think it is uh but i'll make sure um and just go on in 27:32and start submitting poll requests and uh and adding value there it'd be great uh in the ethereum classic repo probably not right maybe just a link right yeah i think it's nice to have the uh the classic book org 27:53and as its own separate thing and uh yeah if people would like to contribute that they can go to github.com forward slash classic book slash classic book running 28:14um so it is related to web free and i was just reading an article saying that [Music] blockchain blockchains currently don't have inter operability so they 28:33think that future designs will will look like overlay networks where um where you can move assets from one chain to another like routing assets and 28:54is this like like the the scope for the door to make edc more interoperable with other chains scope because what we like is there's just 29:12no token market on etc right now um and so in my opinion coming from the exchange space uh i think a big added value is getting the um stablecoin ecosystem that already exists at least giving them an ability to migrate 29:29over to etc so um you know it's a different thing for them to directly issue the funds on utc which i do believe they'll do in the future but in the meantime at least getting synthetics uh pegged over to etc and uh i think the challenge is uh 29:47to do that in a decentralized way uh i've been researching it a little bit this last week um and i've seen like i mentioned earlier was tokenbridge did something with a amb messaging system um i i've seen i think i don't know anything about multi-coin i haven't 30:05or multi-chain as i think it's them um i haven't looked at that product but i know it's very popular um and it's integrated in a lot of networks so i gotta understand how that works um the other thing is chainbridge from chainsafe um but that's federated uh so that's centralized uh right there um so the 30:23goal is to try to get that set up in a way that's decentralized uh maybe it won't be at the very start but um to work on improving that uh so so that is definitely in scope of trying to bring that interoperability uh because i think that's what we need to get the big projects 30:42over to etc also another messaging that i hope to start hearing um is you know we have this uh ethereum moving to proof of stake and we've tipped we've talked about the miners and what they're going to do but the projects on top of ethereum uh might want to hedge their project 31:00over on etc and have that ability to migrate over just in case something went wrong on the in the proof of stake migration uh so that hedge uh should probably be vocalized to uh some of the bigger projects out there that are uh high value 31:16on each today when when you are looking at this are you are you more looking at i don't know the high-end technical stuff or are you looking at at 31:36ways to to increase adoption or just both and i don't know find a common ground because in my opinion i think we should look at [Music] spaces or defy apps that 31:56are really popular and people want this project because it's kind of new that we were getting in motion uh with the the thought that co-op was going to be defunded um uh i'm 32:14currently the priority for me is to make sure that we get uh tether over and it would be great if we got bitcoin a synthetic bitcoin over uh just because i think that those are the primary markets for etc so just having the ability to uh trade etc 32:32to those on chain uh with no custody uh no kyc all that junk um i think that's a high value and i think that's kind of fundamental uh for um markets on our on this network so that's really my priority i can i i understand you're asking kind of forward thinking 32:51um but i just don't think that in the process right now now that we're there to where i can i can even prioritize other stuff other than those type of lifts [Music] you 33:11made about vocalizing um the hope to get existing projects to migrate to etc and i think one project that would be worth reaching out to is make a dell because i as far as i remember the founder one of the founders of make it 33:30out was uh publicly against the hard fork the original ethereum classic hard fork so i should say the dow hard fork um so etc 33:55given that that is the tether of stable coins uh made you know and whatever in their way you know the tether is the the backed by a dollar they're the stable coin that you know collateralized by uh you know whatever digital assets or some or whatever it is um i can't remember 34:14it's been a minute since i read on it but uh but yeah that would be great to get that other over um and if they're not open to that uh our network is you know we can build that over here as well so and hopefully we can build it maybe in a less centralized way um so those are some 34:33thoughts for sure uh i i just think that the biggest stable coin uh the most liquid stable coin is tether and uh getting that over onto our chain um even if you know even if it's just a fraction of what tether is uh it's it's total 34:52supply just getting some of that over to our chain is going to be a huge added value um and i think it will set a motion a domino effect really because if one uh issuer starts listing then that's going to incentivize others to do the same 35:13yeah especially especially the smaller stable coins like stably i think is one us usd maybe uh or no not us anyways you can't even remember all these tickers are the same these days um but uh yeah some some of these smaller ones it's like how do you differentiate yourself and capture a network right how do 35:32you get that adoption um so hopefully and that's what i was saying is that at the start they won't directly issue onto our network especially with a lower hash rate like this um i think as as the miners keep turning on our price keeps going up uh we'll start seeing them seriously look at uh issuing directly onto ethereum classic 35:52and hopefully those those smaller uh stable coins take note and hop on the opportunity fast right the the first stable coin that deploys to ethereum classic will be the only stable coin that's deployed to a large proof of work smart contract platform 36:13by sometime this year so it's a massive opportunity to differentiate themselves as you mentioned yeah and it essentially will then be then be uh it'll be the primary volume and the d5 stack right so there is a great first mover advantage um however i know i i someone mentioned that uh i 36:32mean this was this was uh in in a conversation uh probably like a month ago in the in the discord but someone had mentioned that uh usdc coinbase's stablecoin has grown substantially faster than tether in recent years in terms of adoption so uh so there is an ability 36:49to to to beat tether um if you if you make those moves and uh so so we'll see maybe maybe one of those guys uh will come over first uh and try to try to become the flagship stable coin for etc right 37:08it's uh it's merely a case of redeploying and allocating some some of some tiny fraction of the vast um amount of capital already deployed so it's almost uh like win-win scenario for a lot of these uh 37:23especially the smaller coins and uh and etc markets and then um i'm i'm not sure about uh a wrapped bitcoin market i you know i've never really played with those i don't know if that's uh 37:41you know if that's uh if that's a a worthwhile thing but uh but we'll definitely explore that because having uh the ability to trade bitcoin on the etc network uh a bit throwing bitcoins synthetic uh would be great as well oh and you know what would be another great one 37:59is the etc market uh i think that that would be a high volume market as well so those those will probably be the priorities right there out what these assets will be called because 38:17it's like wrapped ether is already a thing kind of on ethereum so what would it be called on its own classic and would there be like classic wrapped ether or classic wrapped bit yeah i was actually i was actually thinking of that when we were looking at contracts and naming uh and like naming conventions and everything and uh as an example like if 38:36you go to the ave markets and the lending markets there you know they just they have like a little trailing thing on the end of um of whatever the market is so uh so i don't know i don't know what it will be um you know that'll probably be something that we said in our code um i mean i was thinking of using like for bridged ones was using b in 38:56there but but then you know you you worry about like vusd the finance chain right so so um so there's definitely it'd be great if there was uh some community uh thought on that uh if if there is an opinion on what you guys think it should be named uh we certainly can uh put that into the bridges so when it's 39:15you know when it's creating the uh the the pegged contract on uh or uh sorry token on um on classic uh it is named to that convention so if you guys have opinions uh please vocalize them 39:52you know you keep the conversation on 40:11this atc dao um initiative whether it's this specific naming convention or anything else uh please feel free to uh post a comment or or drop a you know voice message in the community call oh there's uh there's one element that i haven't actually talked about just because 40:30it's not something that's actively being worked on right now um and that was uh i think i dropped the note in that on that uh bitcoin uh roadmap but that was a a mining pool uh where the mining fees uh because i think people collect like one percent mining fees in the pools uh also 40:48go to uh that open source development um this was thought in a way that you know the d5 stack is uh users of the protocol funding open source development to give them value back by getting more d5 protocols and more financial products for their etc um so that 41:07those people are kind of paying paying for the future products in that way uh with the miners uh a mining pool would be would enable them uh the ability to if they if they wanted to to contribute to development of to funding development and 41:27i think those funds would be great for uh going to client maintainers and uh client improvement and uh so anyway so i uh co-op right now is paying the client maintainers and so that would be a way to kind of alleviate that burden uh 41:47off of them and also uh maybe bring in more client maintainers uh that are directly interacting with uh kind of the miners opposed to uh kind of having that middleman of um of uh of co-op half you know saying hey prioritizing 42:04what we what needs to be uh uh updated in the in the clients so anyways so that's the thought on allowing uh miners to also participate in this type of uh voluntary funding 42:22mechanism something that i think uh for for a small donation that would otherwise be going to some kind of mining pool operator uh miners can actually increase the value 42:42of their holdings indirectly by uh yeah ensuring that the the asset they're mining has future value via maintained protocols yeah and i've i've heard that uh that geth is pretty good um it'll be interesting you know i i think of that idea 43:00of for mantis for instance right like mantis was trying to do that treasury to fund their client well a mining pool with a one percent might you know they can put up a proposal to try to get some of those funds to get mantis online for instance so that would just be a different client um and then uh 43:21and maybe like features that miners want i don't know i know that you can signal inside of the clients so they could likely have their own kind of uh little signaling thing of features they'd like for fundings or like approval of um proposals or not so there's ways to there's ways to get miners actively involved 43:40in that type of pool plus they don't have to allocate 100 of their hash rate right they could just put a portion of their hatch rate and if they don't like what's going on they don't put their hash rate there so that's what i think is a is a great compromise to kind of what that treasury was trying to achieve uh and um and 43:59uh and this is a little i think it's more decentralized and miners have a a much bigger vote uh in saying that um right so in in that sense it could also even be used as a means to gauge uh sentiment from miners in terms of what what kind of features they are looking at supporting an ethereum 44:19classic and at the same time donating towards those features and you could have different addresses for different mining pools that indicate oh yeah i want to support sha-3 or i want to support this uh future hard fork yeah yeah exactly yeah yeah yeah it allows the it really gives the 44:38miners voice um and it's you know and it's not no longer in in that regard we're not dealing with uh github uh uh comments or discord comments uh when we're trying to uh figure out what the miners really want um so 45:00it's voting with hashrate yup i i had while uh trying to solve in my in my head it was okay if co-ops disappearing how do we solve that uh you 45:19know how do we solve those things in a way that uh it's clear leaning on private funding like that it has an expiration date so how do we how do we create funding models that not only don't have an expiration date uh but they grow over time because it keeps adding value and 45:38it's that positive feedback loop uh and then all of a sudden it's completely stained sustainable um you know etc will have a huge war chest for all of those solidity developers that are out there that uh are looking to uh do bounties and be self-employed and just contribute to open 45:57source network that's that's the big goal with by shedding the reliance on any central point then it can exist forever literally 46:19development on the network and uh and it's exciting to think of you know in 30 years or whatever you know we'll set the stuff up now but it'll be crazy what's what's being built later on and you know and the ecosystem of development that's going on kids will be learning solidity don't have to go get 46:37a w-2 job and could just directly start trying to get bounties and doing work so um it's it's just going to be a cool ecosystem around etc when all of that evolves exactly and i think evolves is the key word there because if you look at alternative 46:55chains like ethereum because they have a central wall chest via the the premine and ethereum foundation uh allocating those funds there's no incentive to evolve this kind of sustainable mechanism so ethereum classic on yet another front can potentially have some kind of killer feature in the form 47:13of sustainability long term there will be predictable funding right uh you can look at the volume of protocols and say oh those you know the dev 47:30the the the open source funding pool is generating this much that allows you to build an entire software outfit um that is dedicated on trying to get those proposals and add value to the network so in terms of businessmen uh they 47:49can they can plan and organize around trying to just work on ethereum classic and they know there is just steady funding that is there for the taking so um right now that is not the case it's spotty funding um and you don't you don't really know uh if 48:07it's gonna get renewed all of that uh or right previously it was you had to do a 1099 with an organization that's just won't be the case it's it'll be open for uh entrepreneurial tech people to say you know what we're gonna build around this protocol and 48:26we're gonna make this the best protocol in the world and uh and you know we're positioned in a great way i think donald does a great job of talking about the intrinsic intrinsic value of ethereum classic today and uh and really all we all we really need to do is start building 48:44on top of it and increasing that use those use cases and adoption is just going to roll in um we have the ethos we have the unique story um we just so much is going right for this uh this network and uh and so this will just be another example of classic doing things 49:03the correct way i also wanted to pick up on one of the updates and that is that uh not only is there five million usd sitting 49:22around um to be spent in the next four years or more but they also have several hundred thousand worth of etc so if donald's prediction comes right uh which is almost certain to happen in the next four years for example this is not investment advice but um that 49:41that amount of etc would potentially 100x meaning that not only does it have four years but another 10 years but another 20 years so even just basic client maintenance seems like it's in a pretty good position through etc co-op alone let alone the additional stuff that's going to come from uh private 50:01efforts such as this dao initiative and others around co-op might be the people that are receiving those you know uh those bounties right so they'll have a funding mechanism they'll be able to capture those funds as well so 50:19um you know and and who knows maybe etc lab you know these other you know iohk maybe these guys that walked away you know they can come back that's you know that's the best part about this network is it's all open um and so when there's that big stack of uh funds there um you know that 50:39you know they'll plan around it so it's clear they had the interest in the past they may not have wanted to front the bill but if use cases are front in the bill and then etc is appreciating in value and uh in adoption uh i don't see any reason why those old teams aren't gonna 50:57come back uh and will get that uh intellectual capital back uh active in the network so that's an exciting thing um and then i think it's really exciting to think of all of the people that aren't working on ethereum classic right now and they've been working on eth or any other evm and they're 51:16gonna start coming over here and adding value that you know isn't even on our radar so it's gonna be great to see the development ecosystem just uh exponentially grow and we will see the price grow we will see you know the fee market grow miners are gonna be making 51:34a lot more money than just the block reward uh there's a lot of positives that are that are getting ready to happen for this network it's exciting um the positive nature of this update from bob like four years of runway is an awesome 51:54thing to have and uh yeah it's gonna be an awesome four years i just want to to add that i think it's great to have such an open mechanism 52:12where where miners can can pay with a very small fee uh for development because this uh opens up ethereum to business and even miners can can 52:30make a lot more by uh by supporting uh supporting the protocol so for them it's like a an investment like you pay a very small fee let's say for six months and uh the results you'll have in six months 52:49will be very beneficial for more than for for for uh for the next year right so i think to 53:06open edc for business i think this is graced great and this is um the path forward that uh that mining pool model uh is there if they go to a different mining pool they're already paying that fee so for 53:25a miner the fee is already is going somewhere right so what it might do is if there is this option they a will certainly get hash rate over there so it'll split it'll pull hash rate away from some of the the other high higher hash rate uh mining pools um but maybe the other existing mining pools will then 53:45adopt this model um so that people stay in their pool as well so hopefully it kind of has that cascading effect um and then client maintainers now you know people like isaac and all them uh they they have security on funding so now you know they don't have to worry about uh you 54:05know their mortgage and everything like that now they can plan to dedicate their self to uh really working on the clients um and uh and so that's very exciting in my opinion also i wanted to uh give credit on the the seed of that um idea actually came from an etc labs uh repo 54:23where luke williams put up which was an open etc pool um that's that's where the foundation of that idea came from and it was actually forked from someone uh in the ethereum network um so i don't know uh in turn i don't know if that repo is a 54:41good repo to work off of but uh that idea has not been fully uh explored it's just at its seed uh seed stage right now but that's where it came from so credit uh credit 54:52to those guys and i i would also mention this was um part of the related and part of the treasury discussion 55:11that has been ongoing i'm sure we're all aware of it but uh one of the many ideas floated about um trying to get alternative sources of funding um via miners is some some kind of donation and this very much fits in within that uh paradigm and i guess looking back um it 55:30seems like from a situation where a treasury is completely unnecessary at this point or at least yeah it seems like not worth the trade-off at all approach because it's it's building use cases 55:50on top of the protocol and accomplishing the same thing uh and we're not adjusting the protocol or the monetary policy or any of that junk um so it keeps that stability uh that we have on the protocol level and then uh tackles the problem the funding problem uh by increasing 56:09adoption and and uh the value of the protocol itself so i think it's a win-win um on that and uh and hopefully it gets traction the best thing is that if it's not working out very well uh no one has to use the products right that's that's the benefit of all of this is that um they'll 56:29just die off if if they're not adding value then something else will um so i certainly hope this isn't the only approach to funding i hope other people come to the table and start thinking of ways to do it but this is what i think is a logical approach right now and that's why i'm willing to put hours and capital 56:47into uh into getting it set up i think it'll be a high value for this network there may be other uh potential benefactors and we should also not forget the uh the etc community fund 57:06which seems like this would be a good candidate to uh experiment with funding via corp hasn't signaled anything 57:25about what what they are planning to do with with that fund so i i'm also hoping that maybe this year they may set a roadmap for for that fund and i don't know see see 57:45if it can if it can produce any results discussion about uh what the next steps are for etc in terms of uh protocol upgrades and future forks especially in light of the merge and the sha-3 58:04debate etc etc and yeah with this new announcement it seems like a good place to get uh uh discussion teed off about where etc is going so uh i extend open invitations to um anyone that's interested in talking about that i 58:23think uh i think one priority when we start talking about that is that we should start uh bringing up the fee market and um and though you know just on a on ethereum we've seen we've seen it go rampant so uh so those will will be issues that we'll have to deal with in the 58:43future uh so just that type of forward thinking fee market um integration with what what are their roll-ups and and l2 stuff so side chains all that uh it'll be exciting i'm excited i'm glad that uh that the protocol discussion will start going that way they'll be very productive 59:06unique opportunity here for the possibility of via l2s like optimatic roll up and others um to slowly ramp up adoption such that there is never really a serious fee market problem because everyone's using l2 and only making a small number of transactions 59:26on the base layer in order to get into l2 and then settling larger transactions on the first layer ella donald's future vision couple 59:46more points to go through but i just wanted to open up any other final comments on this uh future funding discussion and or future steps for ethereum classic to uh the current participants in the community call the 1:00:06comments there to see if i get it correctly so a classic um classic dao is a project that there is a group of defy developers 1:00:26and builders that want to build uh some dapps on etc and they're going to send part of the fees of those debts to a dow or a fund and that fund is going to be used to build more adapts is it something like that a 1:00:43model with 1:01:12someone asking me something yeah can you hear me i'm donald silent 1:01:26on my sides though there are no other comments in the the chat but yeah i believe uh i think you got the 1:01:45idea donald um projects that will then also potentially fund back into a dow fund that would then future snowball and more and more projects could 1:02:04be funded through that mechanism in an unofficial way uh 1:02:29a note of a comment from werner um that was posted about uh ecip uh the the shah three debate so werner did you want to mention that yourself or should i just read out your comment uh sure i can uh just let me find my notes yeah 1:02:49so back then when there was this discussion about proposal due to basically formula issues um there were also some some some problems with uh with acip were mentioned and 1:03:08so i i posted a few uh a few contributions to this to the issues thread that was on february 21 if you want to look it up um about things that i found lacking or that updating and so on basically it was four areas 1:03:27one was simply technical issues with the ecp like in complete specifications then that the motivation the items listed there they were kind of obsolete and needed up the updating class the main motivation that was being proposed by the better 1:03:46proponents of this proposal at that time at least um this wasn't mentioned so motivation section would need updating and also given that this would have a massive impact on the ecosystem um the compatibility 1:04:04and transition issues that this would bring with it would also have to be discussed this is completely missing at the moment i'm not saying that this would everything i would have to be crammed into this ecb maybe that can be could be a companion is happy also i'm not saying that any that's i mean i'm not quite sure actually 1:04:24where this is going it seems that interest in this proposal has pretty much died so i'm not suggesting that somebody makes a great effort just to find out that basically there's this it's that already but in any case if if anybody wants to move this forward then those things will have to be addressed and 1:04:43the fourth item is um [Music] that i mean when you're doing a new algorithm then it would also make sense to plan ahead a little and think of potential um collisions or conflicts with other coins that might also adapt a lot of the same algorithm and you might even find yourself 1:05:02in a situation where the other one is bigger than you which will bring us back just to the studio to the old um fear of of living as a as a minority card so it would make sense to engineer some some degree of protection into the new 1:05:20algorithm that was my my fourth item there so yes these are basically things if if somebody is interested in making this thing actually at least um to completing it let's say put it like this and make it a proper proposal then these 1:05:39things would have to be addressed seems that yeah uh with the new sort of post-merge reality the proposal kind of needs uh a 1:05:56new set of uh assumptions to be working from uh as to whether the trade-off still makes sense and what the timers are and uh yeah we've we've uh discussed this quite a lot so uh i think we can leave it there for now as we are reaching the hour but 1:06:15uh if there are any other final comments about anything this is the time and the floor is open if someone wants to bring something up please 1:06:24go ahead for 1:06:41this uh call and we will see you again next week thanks for joining and uh for contributing to edc bye-bye

Grayscale Funding, ETC DAO, Bitcoin Conference

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