Bob Summerwill Recap, Erigon, COOP Withdrawal

0:04it's on the hour so i guess let's get going wait a few minutes for people to show up but 0:11i'll start recording uh 0:55the notes the agenda in the github repo there's some extra points that i added there but we'll 1:13see if he turns up to that and that'll 1:31be a major benefit if we could get it working with etc oh hey donald what's up until we kick things off usually about five 1:50past and uh we can go from there no problem in 2:08the chat seems to have gotten some interest at that point it's excellent the analysis is perfect a 2:38lot of questions on that other client uh yeah for the for the eragon client um but also just the uh uh a response to the the 2:56withdrawal in terms of like where edc is at uh from the co-op no response from from bobby mean great maybe 3:17we can push that in january at 3:38this point um last uh last week we were sorry the week before bob we were trying to figure out um to get some some guests in on a regular basis 3:57for q a so we can kind of instead of just having a free open discussion it would be more like the q a that we had with bob because i think that that really worked and got a lot of attention creating a short list of people in the etc community 4:17or active members that might be worth doing a q a with i think i think we should get in january maybe we should get someone who used to work for atc labs because 4:38the developers have moved to it is cop and maybe we can have one of them just 4:46to keep some sort of balance with 5:17the court with the client devs much so it would be good to uh to have them on for sure or isaac for to talk about corget diego 5:34to talk about uh basu etc co-op at the moment yes the three of them with 5:52corget being the the main client uh i think it will be also good to have them just before the fork it's 6:09mid-january or something on 10th of february but it's not really a sure thing a 6:29problem because ethereum's last fork i don't remember the name included the change of the fees fee burning and all that and the fork in etc is going to be the same 6:47but without including that but the changes are interrelated so it was difficult to to not do the fee change so they were trying to find a way to neutralize the the 7:05op code or whatever is the eip of the feet change specifically so that it's there inside etc but without actually changing the fees the fee model um yeah they were trying to solve that contract 7:24backwards compatibility or cross-compatibility they needed the the op code in yeah i think uh a developer from the guest team would be awesome so let's 7:41uh let's try and reach out one guest question so no some somebody else could be asking the 8:00questions and and and because your your paper theme classic classic for me it's so um fundamental and also your response as a follow-up is equally important and i think your thoughts and questions to you 8:21for example why you see you know in contrast to what many of us do which is we look at solana and ethereum 2 and cardano we say oh we would love to be like them but um we would love to have money like them 8:41we would have to have we would love to have i don't know projects like them we would be we would love to be like them but in reality etc has a totally different value proposition so i think that conversation would be great to have with you so 9:01uh i i'll add myself to the shortlist for uh for a debate because you really see it how it is and have great thoughts about 9:22the state of edc so if if something comes up like we had the treasury and you wrote that article about it that paper about it maybe have when 9:40when times come maybe you can participate in a debate it's definitely possible my uh i i i'm definitely comfortable with doing 9:59the writing offline and i can take as long as i want i'm not sure how um good i am in debate scenarios never really done them but i'll be open to looking at that or 10:16for a core development from x etc labs get something in before the fork yep so the next week or the week after would be ideal okay 10:33okay i'll ask around awesome thank you next on the list of items is uh to recap on last week's call with bob and if there's any general 10:51impressions of how that went uh maybe we could improve uh for future interviews or if there's any either commentary on the debate itself or the uh 11:01the structure that'd be great to hear uh it went well i think bob 11:19was very honest about from from that video i'm doing uh some bullet points because 11:37i was thinking adding them to to the website the blog post just to have a short summary of the video and i'm also working on editing that video to remove 11:56some some pauses some some stuff from from it to make it more enjoyable enjoyable i i wonder if um with regards to the uh notes 12:15and like bullet point generation it would be possible to somehow take the transcript from youtube and automatically generate that in future to make it like uh i know there's like summary generation ai things that you can do but never done it myself that might be an option 12:39by hand i'll i'll send you an example i used to do this when i was working in television you had the live declarations and i was writing the main thing that i was hearing making bullet points and from there i was 12:58writing articles uh 13:19if there's nothing else on that let's move to the next topic which is this um sorry i had that so i had a the i think the call itself the structure and everything was was perfect um bob as a speaker and and and you had the the 13:39basic pre-written questions and then open for questions that structure i think everything went well and uh bob himself i think he he expressed uh sincerely his his um posture his opinion about the macro situation 13:57in utc um i i do think that he he he has which this i have said in many on social media and videos that's it that he has um a sort of uh um i don't know if to call it pessimistic 14:15or negative but just um like skeptical um point of view which is good to have skeptical people in the in the in the community but i don't know whether the such an alpha um participant 14:34like it is a co-op and and the executive director of the edc co-op who have this like low image of etc is is good in terms of communications non-marketing and i don't know how how he's going to sell etc to anyone with his postures his posture is basically 14:56the typical negative things about ttc there's no money there's no road map that was new for me he said that there's no road map um there's no research and we have many challenges so i me being a sales person and we and i sell technology to multinational corporations 15:15i'd say that i talk about edc with that posture i'm not going to sell anything to anyone no wonder the edc co-op doesn't get any money from anyone anyone else except uh barry silbert but yeah i think i think that uh whether 15:34glamos although that posture is sincere and and it's true i mean in the sense that we don't have we have four million dollars we don't have 400 million dollars like other projects map 15:53is true but it's true that we don't have dedicated researchers and stuff like that we inherit research from other projects and that we have many challenges primarily the bloat challenge not a technical challenge but 16:12but i i don't think that's the the full story i mean there's a whole other story about the theorem classic which is what you have written for example is torah which is that ethereum classic is pearl in the sense that there's only another project that is as decentralized as etc which 16:31is bitcoin and and this is unique and that has incredible value and that by itself is an incredible value proposition and by itself as it's discovered in the market in the future uh etc is very likely going to grow organically like like it's doing so now so 16:50yeah my general opinion is that he has a one-sided negative or skeptical view of etc and i don't understand why he doesn't see the other side now and 17:11uh yeah there was a there was a fair amount of uh honesty in in the conversation we had um to be fair though i do believe that uh at least in the context of a community community call um honesty is probably the best thing for it and if 17:29in that call it was overly salesy and not really being fully honest then i don't know if that would have been better or worse um i don't know how bob is uh outwardly talking about etc to external uh sources but uh at 17:48least in the context of that community call i think it was uh the correct tone 17:53because that's what it's like the 18:16problems that we have and uh the updates and uh some of the stats that we had this year so but overall honesty and [Music] making 18:36uh making cop look for uh for solutions to those problems he talked about the community fund he talked about checkout he talked about rivet rsp 18:55endpoint uh the work on base on corget will continue now we know that uh two more developers will join cop um he also compared the dc with other chains and the 19:13funds they are having for developing new stuff in the blockchain industry so overall it's not okay maybe he's not a self sales person but i think uh he he really touch most 19:30the most interesting points that [Music] that we need to to address next year positive the 19:48information that ethereum 2 in the end is not going to have starting initially and that the same technology of theorem 1 is basically going to continue so that research and downstream benefit that we etc always had is going to 20:08continue so that dissipates a little bit that we don't have money problem and we don't have research problem because we're going to continue to import the good research and innovation from from that from that source no evm the evm standard that was very good news 20:27for me um the other thing that was very good news was the idea of turbo turbo gets aragon and i think that priority for etc to for 20:44this edc co-op to to create a module for for etc in that client because if it's so efficient it sinks 24 to 48 hours i saw under github the ethereum blockchain so etc is going to do it in hours and 21:03and and the storage for some reason it's it's also significantly reduced so it is definitely good news if we can give it easy co-op or the devs can can build the atc module for that and even if 21:23we migrate 100 to that node in the future um that we don't have a roadmap i i think it was it was weird sorry 21:43go ahead bro he he also stated that they will make some expenses to to hire or i don't know uh a research skilled guy he 22:01also said that that we don't have any research now but that may change in the future i think it's it's a kind of interesting concept 22:20in a decentralized system especially when there is no like does does bitcoin have a roadmap per se or is it just a bunch of researchers and whatever happens to be good at the time gets implemented that's a good point bitcoin 22:38has nothing official zero no not even a btc cooperative nothing zero it's totally that part of bitcoin is totally decentralized what happens in bitcoin is that within develop core developer circles and 22:57then the the core the core community around those circles they usually have one or two future changes that everybody agrees with like 90 percent are that we should do this before it was segwit um 23:14and that was the roadmap segwit four years ago and this year it was um taproot and everybody rally but that's absolutely it's like a road map that is just produced by organic interaction between them i think an etc is 23:33more or less the same right i remember before we had um like when all the teams were working together in like 2019 there was a fixed road map and it was like by q3 we will have this by q4 we'll have that but i'm not sure if that makes sense for such a amorphous like 23:52development future is more of a i don't know it's it sounds like it's needed but that's from like a if it was a company sure but it's not a company i 24:11don't know when when i say roadmap i don't mean a formal anything or constitutional kind of thing or there's there's there's clearly one thing that etc does and that is an implicit generally agreed kind of thing that is a roadmap 24:31that that is that we're going to follow the evm standard so whatever your soft or hard forks in in the evm standard like we've been doing is part of our roadmap the the other thing is that etc has something specific that has been talked about for since 24:512019 which is sha-3 and he even mentioned chat to yeah that's something what that we should do and we should do it after ethereum moved to ethereum two um so those two things are a mini roadmap and and and it's not official or anything like that it's just a generally 25:10accepted um thing which we could call roadmap just to give it a name um other people have been talking constantly about the ecip processing itself 25:28is an indication of a roadmap and any we have their fly client for example um [Music] and we can add now turbo get to uh if somebody tells me donald etc doesn't have a road map it sounds to me very strange 25:48because i mean for me my mind my brain it's very clear that we have shot three for example right right there's a big difference between not having uh goals and a direction and not having like an official like outline of exactly what's going to happen yep 26:18now with the whole eragon thing but i wanted to sort of uh share something i was thinking about with this and turbo geth and i think it's definitely uh a good thing that we should be doing but one potential concern is the uh the 26:36potential centralization and whether there's any um issues with having turbo geth as opposed to like the other full clients and whether it's a replacement for a full client or whether there's just like zero drawbacks and it's purely just a better data structure like 26:55i know with fastsync for example there is some trade-off in terms of decentralization or at least like guarantee um so i think we need to be careful if we put all our eggs in one basket on a client 27:07if there is any kind of drawback overall he he has mentioned that uh corget will continue or get or will continue 27:26in ethereum so it may be the it may be the main client overall ethereum that means uh as part of a theorem 2.0 right still 27:50needs to maintain a an etc version of that and it's a fork that's not really it it's not as far as i understand really easy to just like pull stuff from the upstream branch because you have to be quite selective about what code gets implemented and is compatible 28:07with etc a 28:27full kind of um investigation into what the the pros and cons are if there are any we know very little about it i think at this point so um whilst it's uh it's definitely a good thing if it solves those problems let's make 28:43sure it's the right thing issue on the eragon um github repository asking 29:03whether what the next steps might be to get edc integrated and suggested it it probably likely would be able to help fund that in some way either either by finding our own developers or funding directly with the existing development team uh potentially with etc so uh hopefully 29:22we'll hear back from them soon um and given that they do not have the same kind of i guess baggage that the core geth team has with ethereum uh sorry with the theorem classic um they might be more open to to working with 29:40it github account if you go into the issue and i know thumbs up it to show some support and hopefully that 29:58will encourage them to respond geth 30:22or sorry uh turbogeth slash eragon before we move on general channel yeah there is a a link uh i believe in the course 30:45file which i can paste in again in general bro already pasted that markdown file which has inside it the link to the issue 31:04that people can follow and thumbs up if they have the time is on this edc called withdrawal um thing and 31:24uh i guess i wanted to it seems like this general agreement in terms of responding of a potential path forward for etc in terms of uh focusing more on core client development and trying to extend the length of maintain maintaining one client in 31:44order to hopefully get to a point where etc is already is kind of self-sustaining and i was wondering if there's any other commentary or things that uh should be added if we try and i don't know and and how we can i don't know convince bob or whoever is in 32:03charge of these decisions to to 32:05see 32:05things 32:05from 32:05this 32:05point 32:05of 32:05view 32:29basic idea i think uh that said something like you you posed a question okay what is basic maintenance core maintenance and what budget would that need versus versus 32:47all the projects that the only entity has money which is the utc co-op is is burning cash on no which is instead of having one developer they have three they have two clients um they're maintaining several other things like 33:05block scout and donating money to other teams that are maintaining things for etc so so so your real core essential cost on a yearly base then there's a lot of 33:24knives to have and you would like to differentiate that and really focus the money on the core things with the caveat that it's not necessarily about not spending on nice to haves especially if there's some really good value for money to be gotten there but 33:42at least ring fence a certain budget for having like a reasonable runway for the core stuff right instead of like the the core question i guess would be like how many years can ethereum classic survive on four million dollars and 34:00or uh whatever future amount comes in uh and is that long enough and if it's not like how can it be optimized at least a few years of development could 34:20be guaranteed with with four mil um even if it's just hiring one developer full-time just for one client to keep it on life support it seems like that's the kind of thing that could be covered by that amount and even if it's not having a budget in mind would allow other 34:38means of raising funds to achieve those requirements such as like fundraising or i don't know like an nft nft sale or something right of 34:58flying blind at the moment and getting panicked about something that we don't really know how much of a problem actually is i think then there's there's three tiers i don't know if you agree but so the first tier is a super core okay 35:17let's maintain one client one developer and that's the only thing we're gonna do no then there's a second tier which is okay let's let's do these other infrastructure things maybe maintain another client and and and maintain the block explorer and and api 35:37system with notes like ether cluster so that's that that's a second tier non-essential but very good to have infrastructure because the market needs infrastructure and then there's a third tier which is less necessary which is okay let's let's do grants for dapps and let's help people with nfts and or 35:56let's let's finance a team to build bridges layer two bridges with other chains would you agree that we have those three tiers yeah pretty much exactly nailed it and i'd also add um uh into the third tier things like marketing and education that kind of stuff 36:15marketing yeah our education et cetera but no confidence i think there's a strong there's a strong bias in the community in general to have fear or be stressed because we don't have money for the tier three and why do we many of us have that stress because we see 36:34that all the other chains are going up in the price that's it like avalanche and ethereum two and all the bells and whistles of the pos coins and we would love to have the same marketing and the same grants and throwing money at uni swap so they build on etc and all that so we really have a strong 36:54bias for that and that may divert funds from dtc cooperative in the future or at least it's a constant pressure i think but i feel it's a it's something that should be resisted um especially if the math doesn't work out in terms of well 37:13you can spend all this money on uh you know trying to build a dap ecosystem artificially but if you then run out of money and you can't afford to maintain a client then it all goes to waste right yes treasury 37:32that a team a team of 12 would of 12 people including developers research that said that would cost three million dollars a year so that is more or less 250 000 per head so core one apparently i 37:52don't know much about these things but apparently should be 250 000 a year so if the atc co-op could set aside 1.25 million dollars and say okay this is my core and this money is sacred and we're going to have this developer that would last at least five years if 38:11that that information is true and then they would have the the rest of the four million dollars to do other non-core things suggestion that i endorse um yeah it's it's good the only thing is you know it's 38:30a little bit sensitive because we don't work for etc co-op and we're not really in control of those budgets we can only make suggestions but i think that's a very like prudent position saw etc co-op and atc labs and and iohk they 38:49were doing their thing and very still working grayscale they do their thing this is decentralized i'm we're not their boss they're not our boss so we cannot demand anything but now it's a little bit of a different situation because the etc co-op has concentrated everything now and whatever they do and how they spend their 39:08money it affects the general community much more than before so i i totally agree they they i mean it's their money and we can only do suggestions but there is a little bit more i think of ability 39:28to the community to more or less hear us that's my feeling um that makes sense and i think i think etc co-op are good stewards good stewards of the community and are doing the right thing and 39:46i think they're open um as we've seen recently to well-reasoned arguments and i think as long as we nicely and uh you know reasonably put forward a case as to you know having as you say like a uh a core like 40:06important long-term budget i think they might be open to that but who knows but that's my start they 40:26should also look for partnerships the industry is growing very much uh more and more blockchains are appearing so finding that path that leads to interoperability should 40:48really really look forward to that you know finding partnerships uh maybe teaming up for projects with uh other 41:04teams mind now i'm reading i'm reading a lot about filecoin because i'm 41:23also a network administrator so i know what what microsoft is doing with azure and windows server and i know how hard it is to safely 41:40secure data and make it available for branches and intercontinental company that runs on three continents it's 41:59it's really hard to secure that data and make it available for all to use and in 2020 there were some really bad cyber attacks like the us got it really really bad and 42:19uh i think overall i think uh data data management and securing it will be will be a focus point for for major companies next year or the years to come so 42:38there's there's really there's really a place for atc having this security with mass and with a possible increase of harsh rate to i don't know develop develop stuff that that 42:56may help companies to to secure their assets overall like microsoft and others uh i have been showing massive interest in blockchains 43:15in general uh i know they were sponsors of ethereum in the early days i believe um for some of the conferences and stuff um in ethereum classic um and should they be and i mean it's definitely 43:34assumed classic is neutral to everyone hopefully but uh if if all the action is happening on ethereum why would microsoft care about ethereum 43:44classic economics you need to find cheap solutions for your 44:03purpose to be more efficient to be to have better costs with etc being way cheaper than ethereum i think overall it can it can bring efficiency to companies who are seeking [Music] 44:25who are seeking or new ways of developing and securing that being said i think that uh if 44:46if ethereum classic does get popular which it will do hopefully um [Music] the the edge that it has in terms of low cost will disappear because it will just have the same exact scaling problem as ethereum which will still have that same problem after 45:042.0 is is it likely that a company like microsoft would see that the value in code is law and immutability and is there a way for us to create a narrative specifically for 45:22those kind of corporate use cases above just um you know the smart contract hype and stuff or whatever whatever's going on ethereum my 45:43firm we we sell [Music] data and artificial intelligence solutions planning solutions and now we're adding blockchain i am the blockchain lead so i spoken to several organizations top 46:06management uh one of the big two logistics companies that's i don't know and for now they're all doing what the media companies were doing in the 90s that tried to create their intranets and they're closed they're closed networks like aol at the time 46:26for people because they thought that people were not going to use the open internet and and they were going to join these these big and closed networks like aol compuserve prodigy at the time you can google them um [Music] 46:48and so they're doing the same now they're trying to do these private blockchains they're using hyperledger hyperledger fabric that's the base technology and then there is a couple of other blockchains one by by ibm and they're testing things i 47:06saw some node in the network is permissioned uh so they join the shipping company the container company the seller the buyer the whole value chain and each one has a note but it's a permission nowaday it's not it's 47:26not even proof of stake it's proof of proof of authority um i i don't i haven't seen for now that large corporations uh using ashore and ibm cloud etc for blockchain are using bitcoin 47:45ethereum not even ethereum wonder whether there is a potential use case or whether it's 48:05just going to be um a completely parallel sort of institution on these decentralized chains as opposed to yeah getting adoption from the old system i'm not sure if that's going to happen but i mean hopefully 48:28they also want to start tokenizing everything so even stocks and all sorts of things and they may maybe going and use hyper ledger i saw that 48:46in uh in the european blockchain conference maybe if you know more done about this whole idea of tokenizing everything and having blockchain for the supply chains yes for now the 49:04the live example that i've seen they joined a car company logistics company shipping companies and the car dealers in the destination countries for example and and and this is a live uh proof of authority blockchain 49:25and and when there is an order to buy a single car in mexico in a dealer the information goes to the shipping company the logistics company and and the car producer say in germany then the car is separated it's put in a container 49:46he puts moves the container to the shipping company the shipping company ships it to mexico and the logistics company moves it from the port to the dealer and the customer goes and gets the car no so all of that is visible and you can see it inside this blockchain but again it's a permission 50:05blockchain and um and and that's the the first use case it's only informational each each step in the say that there's nothing 50 steps each step is sent as a transaction into that blockchain so all the participants know exactly where 50:24the car is it says that even if there's errors they can correct them sometimes i don't know it's in the wrong ship so they take that take it out of the ship and put it in another ship or it's the wrong color car all those things they have everything is planned and very well most executed but 50:41in this particular private chain blockchain uh the only thing that they did is informational so there's no token the car is not tokenized the container is not token as the shipping the ship is not tokenized they only they only enter transactions to 50:58see what is the state of that uh vehicle in the in the and they don't have tokens to pay or anything so what they were saying is that the next level once they feel comfortable with this they're gonna add a currency um which i'm sure what they mean is a 51:17central bank digital currency not not a cryptocurrency into the blockchain so in the future this flow and the value chain is going to include payments so the product goes in one direction and the payments go in the other direction and then in the third or in the future um 51:34stage they're going to tokenize everything and and they were nfts and how nfds can be used to represent a car for example so that was more or less what 51:54is the justification then of using a blockchain as opposed to some other more efficient data structure like a traditional database or like a hash chain well this is what i told them and then this you you were doing this this is equally centralized and you were doing this with aws which is much more efficient 52:14and you don't have to wait for the transactions to confirm and and you don't have to run a node or anything you just go to a website and see that so it doesn't make any sense it's exactly as as as pointless as as iol was in the 1990s or prodigy or compuserve 52:32i think that all these attempts are going to fail i think that hyper ledger fabric is going to fail nobody's going to use it in the future i think that whatever services ibm and and microsoft are providing for for private blockchains 52:50are going to fail just like before they try to make the private web and it failed and now everybody uses the public web when i think this is going to fail doesn't make any sense and it's they're all going to move to real blockchains and 53:08and i think that the proof-of-stake uh coins like ethereum two are going to be used for high performance high volume transactions and bitcoin and etc are going to be used to for the large settlements and large value 53:24contracts i i just don't see the point in using those kind of i mean you need a block you need a blockchain because it's uncensorable and if if it's centralized then you can just update it as you want so do 53:43they at least have to at least have an excuse as to why they're using a blockchain or some kind of narrative as to why they're using it want to use the blockchain to to track everything like donald said about the car now 54:03that car has many components they want to track every piece of metal in that car and find a way to move the industry to a carbon free state so 54:21for doing that you need to you need a lot of data a lot of data that can be shared with everyone who is involved and also you need to track the data and when you have the final product you 54:40can surely know to be to exist so you have everything from every supplier from every worker from everyone and that 54:58may uh may give that data will be used to the what to produce what not to produce who will buy who are not buying all sort of 55:13stuff i guess i don't buy it personally um 55:35they are trying to do this with the big pharma now like putting your health information on blockchain so that you have an easy access and so that data 56:00medics can or hospitals can track your health data and better know what to do go 56:19ahead um the only good idea that i've heard talking to these uh people that we're not that we're not working on yet is is this multinational telephone company and one of them this was incredible because usually they have these centralist 56:38uh ideas oh no let's do a private chain we're not gonna use ethereum or bitcoin we're going to do our own private chain uh that's the mistake i think that just that's just the bias and it's going to go away when they fail but one of them had an incredible idea which is 56:57okay we have sell cell phone towers thousands everywhere in the world um and we pay the local electricity bill where each tower is if there's a tower in oklahoma we pay oklahoma electricity if there's a tower in um [Music] 57:18in i don't know in colombia that we we pay the local electricity bill now they're migrating to solar so so they can have free electricity and and this guy had the idea why don't we put a chip mining bitcoin in 57:35each tower and each tower not only uh we're going to have this solar electricity or from the local source but the tower is going to mine bitcoin and and each tower is going to pay for its electricity that way and even create a revenue for us and i thought it was a great 57:54idea imagine a telephone company putting in each tower a bitcoin miner uh so it reduces the the amortization cost and the cost of each tower i thought it was a brilliant idea yeah that's cool think 58:21after shot three so you don't need to stick a graphics card up there yeah another benefit of show three now um so uh 58:39i mean we can open up for anyone if you want to join some open discussion uh if not we can uh bring it to a close okay estora what is the full scope of these community calls i haven't been really paying attention is it just informal whatever is on our mind yeah 58:58exactly um it started off with basically zero goal just a chit chat and we're trying to uh kind of intersperse having guests for q a so every other week or so we'll try and do a q a style thing but otherwise it's just open discussion and updates 59:16and i guess there's various different sort of uh organic goals that we're creating as we're doing this discussion and trying to focusing on problems and fixing them bring 59:49anything up feel free yeah uh last second i just heard you and don mentioned just briefly shaw three at the end what is the status of alex's participation with us is he coming back or is he sort of sort of faded away but like is he gonna have 1:00:05a role in that does anyone know bloomberg like he said in the video i did with him about shot three and 1:00:23that he didn't have time to volunteer and in blockchains et cetera but he was he was following from afar the the shah 3 project need an actual individual to make it succeed we have smart enough people to make it happen but wasn't he standing up a 1:00:42test infrastructure what was the name of that shot three test net that he was sort of standing up yeah is that necessary to continue to operate to test things 1:01:01on if we move forward with sha-3 that's why i keep referencing him he was very focal on the whole shot through discussion over time that i've seen him sort of disappear you know so just we don't need to rely on one individual person but he was doing substantial work and 1:01:20a test and i'm just wondering what the role of that line is going to be if we move forward with this from my knowledge the that the clients best and core guests are ready for have already been uh test testing 1:01:39shuttery so the at one of the death calls the only thing then needs to be done now it's uh is to do a bigger test for 1:01:57chatri like forking the network and see how it runs and uh maybe make a switch on enough for it and see how that goes but that's the only thing i know who's speaking is this you brother yes yeah 1:02:16um so astora what is do we have complete confidence from you and others that the clients are indeed ready to support support shot three if community quote unquote reaches consensus to move forward with it are we good to go if we had that path uh 1:02:34so just for the record i am not a clock core client developer um so it's not really my field uh as far as i understand sha-3 is good to go if and when it needs to go uh assuming that the clients that it's implemented in are still maintained when it's good to go but 1:02:54as far as i understand the current uh from from bob's discussion seems like the current plan is to wait at least until ethereum 2.0 switches to proof of stake so that uh the miners can all join etc and then slowly move over so that we don't disrupt that potential benefit 1:03:13of getting miners over but from like a buggy code analysis perspective uh you know just that's what i was you know referring to when i was talking about the astor testnet you know i'm just thinking in the back of my head as we move forward you know what 1:03:31is the buggy code status you know if we move forward with that i'm sure we'll have processes in place but you know i'm just worried about you know obscure bugs popping up when if we move forward with that you know what are our processes to make sure you know we don't reach any kind of disastrous 1:03:50issues when that's pushed out you know because i'm not a you know a protocol engineer but i'm just worried in the back of my mind as we go forward with that you know the little bugs that everyone always thinks about in the back of their head where when we pushed future patches in 1:04:09the past you know we had um afri you know closely monitoring you know for forks and all of that you know that was a very good support and experience with him it's just i'm i'm pretty confident we'll have the right minds watching it it's just that's one little error out of all the things 1:04:28we track you know in the community is obscure bugs popping out when we roll out shaw three you know i'm probably obsessing on it too much but i think it's very critical that we you know watch for code weirdness you know as we get closer to that date this 1:04:51need to have a on off switch ability to switch back and forth between sha-3 and uh how would that work in principle in terms of who 1:05:10gets to decide how to turn it on and off was instead of having a specific like cutoff point 1:05:28where everything switches over and the whole network is on chart three it would be a slow transition whereby first every one in ten blocks is sha three then after a month every two and ten and so on until you reach all of the blocks so that if there is a bug it would only affect um at 1:05:48first 10 of of blocks and the rest of the network can still operate in theory are going to be the actual individuals that are responsible for integrating the sha-3 1:06:10i guess code integration into the you know appropriate clients miners how you know that's a little vague to me how is all that going to be handled who are those people yeah 1:06:34very very very cautious so yeah currently etc co-op is the only um main team that's developing or maintaining the clients so it will be their responsibility at this point all 1:06:54of us going forward then all right cool thanks man no worries thanks for the question questions from the audience i 1:07:13gotta go guys thank you very much historia thanks donald take care bye wrap things up so thank you for joining us everyone and uh we 1:07:32will see you next week um this has been recorded so we can probably upload it soonish so uh yeah thanks for joining take care bye

Bob Summerwill Recap, Erigon, COOP Withdrawal

Description

Agenda

Status

Full Transcript